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  1. #81
    Pioneer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    I don't find dodging and burning to be any easier on a computer.

    Spotting? That definitely is easier!
    Ugghh! Spotting!

  2. #82
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    I think the problem most of the time is when the answer is not on the same tune as the question.

    In a recent thread an user asked how could he made a simple form of MTF test to a certain lens, and some users answered basically "why should you need an MTF test". This is a general "risk" in forum conversations: somebody asks how to cook a pizza with salami in a wood oven and somebody will answer: microwave is better, pizza is junk food, eating salami is killing sentient beings, shouldn't we all fast on Fridays, my sensitivity is offended by people eating food my religion forbids, if everybody eats pizza with salami the world will starve within 2 centuries, and what about the poor trees etc.

    I understand for somebody wanting to practice contrast-masking the old way, and asking a question about a certain problem they have in doing it, it would be very tiring to face the barrage fire of all the "why don't you do that in post-processing" answers.

    My basic point is: any forum has some lines in the sand somewhere. Just set a clear line on the sand. Instead of saying: "this forum is not devoted to hybrid techniques" it could be said, in the printing section: "this forum is devoted to traditional printing techniques and numeric post-processing techniques fall outside of the forum scope". Or more simply: "if you are suggesting a Photoshop tool, you are off-topic" . Simple and clear rule. When the rules are easy to understand (no Photoshop-equivalent tools or filters mentioned as an alternative to analogue techniques) they probably are better observed, or enforceable with better ease.

    I agree that a "seamless" migration of a topic to DPUG would help a lot (that means the entire thread, and all its users automatically logged in, a really effortless thread migration) and would actually probably help DPUG grow into maturity, but the instinct of the forum user (since 20 years now, BBS era) tells me that integrating hybrid conversations inside APUG would really work much better as a way to draw attention to analogue processes. I think APUG has a very, very special place on the internet (just see how high APUG results are given in Google search) while DPUG, by the ambiguity itself of its name - which doesn't suggest a particular attention to hybrid techniques - does not lead me to think it can stand out the same way (and I do read and write on DPUG).

    It's just my suggestion, it's not my site and naturally I perfectly understand that Photocentric Ltd. has a different view. I read with interest the posts about the "chain effects" of moderations but again I think clear-cut rules make things easier. And I like APUG also the way it is, although I think it would be a better place if its scope was broadened.

    Fabrizio
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  3. #83

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    Bob,

    I worked on several projects involving the Colorama and Kodarama image on display in NYC during the development of Premier. One project involved a 35mm slide taken on the then new Kodachrome 200 of a cheetah in Kenya. Printing the large (18' x 60') Colorama required an 8" wide internegative. When the lab made such a conventional internet and printed it to the display material, it no longer looked like it had been shot on Kodachrome. It was a fairly easy job for me to produce a digital negative that gave them the exact look they wanted when printed to the display material. It was a good example of the strength of a hybrid approach.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusM3 View Post
    Of course it is. And that's probably the reason why many argue against it. If it is not a difficult analogue process and doesn't involve torture, it's just not pure enough. I can make a good traditional print but I'm not that stuck in my purist ways to deny that a hybrid process does facilitate (and enable) certain steps in regards to alt process and even silver printing.
    There is a real difference between 'not liking digital' and 'not wanting to talk about it here on APUG'.

    I like both Italian food and Mexican food.

    If I am in the mood for a burrito I should probably go to my favorite Mexican food restaurant, not my favorite Italian food restaurant. I wouldn't expect the Italian food restaurant to make me burritos; they don't have the right tools or ingredients to do it right.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post

    My basic point is: any forum has some lines in the sand somewhere. Just set a clear line on the sand. Instead of saying: "this forum is not devoted to hybrid techniques" it could be said, in the printing section: "this forum is devoted to traditional printing techniques and numeric post-processing techniques fall outside of the forum scope".
    You mean something like this:

    APUG.ORG is an international community of like minded individuals devoted to traditional (non-digital) photographic processes.
    That came in via copy and paste from the home page BTW.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #86
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    DPUG has not had much resource put into it (yet). It consistently registers 3 new users a day. With every post it starts to get more incoming google traffic. This will eventually lead to more photographers finding us and joining. It is tough for a forum to hit critical mass but as long as there are 2-5 new registrations a day it will happen, then it will be 3-6 per day, 4-8, 8-12, 12-20. When forums register 0 a day or 1-2 a week, that is usually a sign it will not make it. APUG consistently registers 20 or so a day and always over 500 per month, good months are 700+. DPUG has every possibility of being a 200k user community or more, and if I could clone myself maybe it would happen faster. It is apparent we could use two things here:

    1) a tight integration between communities (single login, single profile)
    2) DPUG to get lift off

    For #1 I am at the mercy of the software and a custom coded integration would likely cost 10k plus to pull off, and it would add a lot of complexity to the system. it is best to wait for advancements in vBulletin software that allow for more interlinking of multiple forums. Luckily we are not the only ones interested and this is a common theme for MANY vBulletin owners (which own multiple forums). The good news is vBulletin 5 is in the works and it sounds like these multi-forum integration issues are finally getting visibility. Ideally we use the core software to bring both forums together in a clean and supported framework.

    For #2 This is something we can work on now. It might be time to raise a few funds on DPUG so we can get some targeted advertising out there. Feedback could be vital here, so if anyone can think of excellent places to get the DPUG logo please let me know and I'll investigate. I'll start a thread on DPUG now requesting such feedback..

    As always, thanks for the feedback posted in this thread so far.

    Sean

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    There is a real difference between 'not liking digital' and 'not wanting to talk about it here on APUG'.

    I like both Italian food and Mexican food.

    If I am in the mood for a burrito I should probably go to my favorite Mexican food restaurant, not my favorite Italian food restaurant. I wouldn't expect the Italian food restaurant to make me burritos; they don't have the right tools or ingredients to do it right.
    Of course, Mark, I do get that.

  8. #88
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    I find it easier because you can un-dodge . But I've never printed platinum, but is dodging and burning even possible in a contact frame? You do have plenty of time in the sun or uv light source. I've seen printing frames that use masks for that, but they're expensive and cumbersome.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    I find it easier because you can un-dodge . But I've never printed platinum, but is dodging and burning even possible in a contact frame? You do have plenty of time in the sun or uv light source. I've seen printing frames that use masks for that, but they're expensive and cumbersome.
    Yes. I recently printed a digital negative to experiment some processes with and when the foreground go blown out, I just reached out and burned like I would in the dark room. My exposure was about 2 minutes, so an effective 40 seconds worked fine.

    Sean, a single login would make things a lot easier, as well as a crossover of user data (# of post and other topics). I've used DPUG, but until things pick up like on here, it's hard for me to go to two places.
    K.S. Klain

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    There is a real difference between 'not liking digital' and 'not wanting to talk about it here on APUG'.

    I like both Italian food and Mexican food.

    If I am in the mood for a burrito I should probably go to my favorite Mexican food restaurant, not my favorite Italian food restaurant. I wouldn't expect the Italian food restaurant to make me burritos; they don't have the right tools or ingredients to do it right.
    Heh-heh. In Middletown, in Lake County, Calif., there is (or was-I moved away 5 years ago) a restaurant that had both Italian and Mexican food-it was set up sort of as separate halves of one place. Rather disconcerting, if not schizophrenic. The quality was very consistent-the Italian food and the Mexican food were equally bad, and equally overpriced. Goes to show that not every idea is a good one.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.



 

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