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  1. #51
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    The athletes look better in colour.
    I do not know a great deal about these early lenses but I have known some references to them as being astigmoid. How is it that a Petzval can be so razor sharp in dead centre and myopically trashed right behind the centre, such as the swirls. The guy with the bmx bike is a case in point. That's a very curious effect. Astigmatism is rampant yet the central subject is curiously razor sharp. I'm wondering if there is a hybrid element to the job. I wonder if we'll ever see the original paper negs?
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  2. #52
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Looks like the developer may have been applied with a sponge to get those kinds of artifacts. Since paper negs can be developed under saflight, it seems like this is the look he wanted from the beginning.

    Petzvals have lots of field curvature, which is why they can be so sharp in the center and not at the corners, paticularly wide open and if the lens is too short to cover the format adequately.
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  3. #53
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    And the artful swirls...? How are they explained?
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  4. #54
    Herzeleid's Avatar
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    I am confused by the papers color sensitivity. Reds are ok, cyans and blues goes to white and pale gray. It is possible panchromatic paper was used, then why paler blues. If filter was used then why reds are not darker. If it was yellow filter to lower paper contrast I would expect to see the effect on the archers photo.
    I do not feel they are simply analog process.

  5. #55
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    And the artful swirls...? How are they explained?
    Jim Galli did a series of posts, or maybe it was a page on his website, on the swirly Petzval effect. It seems to depend on having a lens that can do it and elements outside the DOF zone that can create that effect, like spots of light filtered through leaves.

    In the photo of the guy with the stunt bike, I think the background feels like its swirling in part because of how it fits in the overall composition and because it is part of the out-of-focus area (i.e., the edges are swirling, and the texture in the corners is continuous with the background in the center, so it feels like the whole out-of-focus area is swirling). Also, it seems that the distant background, deeper into the OOF zone, swirls more than the near background toward the center of the image.
    Last edited by David A. Goldfarb; 08-05-2012 at 04:19 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  6. #56
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Here's Jim Galli's blog post on the swirl effect--

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Af.../Swirlies.html
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzeleid View Post
    I am confused by the papers color sensitivity. Reds are ok, cyans and blues goes to white and pale gray. It is possible panchromatic paper was used, then why paler blues. If filter was used then why reds are not darker. If it was yellow filter to lower paper contrast I would expect to see the effect on the archers photo.
    I do not feel they are simply analog process.
    hi

    i shoot tons of paper negatives and i can guess why the coloration is the way it is. ...
    my guess is he just scanned his paper negative in color and desaturated his image.
    its not really as manipulated as one might think.
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  8. #58
    Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzeleid View Post
    I am confused by the papers color sensitivity. Reds are ok, cyans and blues goes to white and pale gray. It is possible panchromatic paper was used, then why paler blues. If filter was used then why reds are not darker. If it was yellow filter to lower paper contrast I would expect to see the effect on the archers photo.
    I do not feel they are simply analog process.
    (head-banging icon goes here)
    Paper is not sensitive to red light. That is why the reds turn black. This is why darkroom safelights are red for black and white paper.
    Paper is sensitive to blue light. That is why the blues turn white.
    Paper is sensitive to green light. If the vegitation was the proper shade of green, you would see it as white in the photographs.
    This is why the Ilford Multigrade 500 head has seperate green and blue light in it for contrast control.

    (RANT ON)
    For a forum that is all about chemical photography, I am really shocked how little some of the members have researched this field. Honestly, guys, come on now! There is a thread in the darkroom section all about makeshift darkrooms. Set one up, and have some fun! Seriously!

    As for lenses, take a peek out and away from your box cameras with proprietary lenses, and have a look at the big wide world of large format, where anything that can go on the front can be put on the front! David has posted some good links. What Jay L. Clendenin did was pure chemical photography, through and through. He did it in his bathroom sink, in fact. There was no digital manipulation, aside from probably clicking "auto contrast" during scanning.

    There is more to life and photography than clicking through a roll and having Walmart or Riteaid or wherever develop it for you, and then posting some snaps! You can even do paper negatives in a 35mm camera! Just cut the paper the right size, stick it in the camera, and close the back. Go and expose one frame at ISO 3 or so, and see what comes out. No problem! You'll have some fun with it!

    There is a big, wide, crazy world of photography out there. Go forth and have some fun!

  9. #59
    Brian C. Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    And the artful swirls...? How are they explained?
    Petzval field curvature and other distortion, such as coma. There's a current Sony lens that does the same thing at f/2, but not as radical. When the lenses were made, that wasn't regarded as a feature, but as a flaw. The lenses were used at a small fraction of the illuminated area. The Rodenstock Imagon also does it, just use a "short" lens on a larger format.

    Look at Jim Galli's site for many more examples of lenses being used far, far outside their design parameters. It's an effect you either love or hate, no in-betweens for it.

  10. #60
    Herzeleid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian C. Miller View Post
    (head-banging icon goes here)
    Paper is not sensitive to red light. That is why the reds turn black. This is why darkroom safelights are red for black and white paper.
    Paper is sensitive to blue light. That is why the blues turn white.
    Paper is sensitive to green light. If the vegitation was the proper shade of green, you would see it as white in the photographs.
    This is why the Ilford Multigrade 500 head has seperate green and blue light in it for contrast control.
    Thank you.That was the point, I was wondering why the reds didn't turned out darker. I assume the paper is orthochromatic, the safelight for being red and so on.
    I had limited experience with paper negatives. So I was just guessing.

    I hope your head does not hurt much.



 

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