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  1. #11
    jovo's Avatar
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    Musicians use the term 'studied with' to mean that they committed themselves to learn the specific approach to the instrument or repertoire of a particular teacher. 'Attended the masterclass of', like a weekend photography workshop means only that one was exposed to whatever was being offered without the same committment to learning (and being evaluated as having learned) that curriculum. As several above have said, it would be misleading to deliberately confuse the two relationships. Maybe not unethical, but not exactly honestly forthcoming either.
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  2. #12

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    The best curriculum are your prints.
    sergio caetano

  3. #13
    Richard Boutwell's Avatar
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    On learning:

    Quote Originally Posted by sergio caetano
    The best curriculum are your prints.
    This is off the original topic of what is ethical and not.

    At a certain point in the course of artistic development that is certainly true. But not from the start. I firmly believe that concentrated time spent working in the presence of someone you deeply respect (not to mention knows what the hell they are talking about) is the best curriculum. That gives you a base to learn from and compare to. Not to mention the direct feedback on ideas and constant emersion in "the life".

    The alternative is reading, seeing, and working (something that needs to be done in the former case anyway).

    Do I think it is ethical to so that? it doesn't matter. It seems that it could be seen as validating the work. "He must be good. Look at who he has studied under." Which may lead to thinking that the person is insecure about the work.---
    ---But, as part of an artists resume listing the workshops, as classes is appropriate.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio caetano
    The best curriculum are your prints.
    I agree, but don't believe that this rule is applied elsewhere. A lot is to do with luck, bullsh****ng and schmoosing the right people.....who may be susceptible to the effects of name dropping. I do not think it is ethical to say you studied under them. This has connatations of 'time spent studying', rather than being ' briefly instructed by'. It sounds more like a long term mentoring and two way mutual relationship (as would be the case with an apprentiship, a la Sexton and AA). I personally would not dream of using such terms had I attended workshops and would regard it as being legalistic with my words, whilst deliberately intending to mislead. Technically true, yes, but in the knowledge that the majority of people would take the extent of the relationship to be FAR greater than it was.

    Where would you stop? Using such an approach I could massage the factual "I have read several Barry T books" into, "I was fortunate enough to learn a great deal from the late Barry T before his untimely death...becoming fully versed with his procedures......hugely important in my personal development ............grateful for his candour in teaching me the intricacies of.......". Is this a lie? NO, manipulative and deliberately ambiguous and ultimately deceptive, YES.

    Actually I am doing rather well here, I'm sure with time I could get this tripping off the tongue..........

    Tom

  5. #15
    Andy K's Avatar
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    I wouldn't think it was unethical. But i would think it was 'name-dropping' and showing a lack of confidence in their own abilities.


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    Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh.

  6. #16
    dr bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jovo
    Musicians use the term 'studied with' to mean that they committed themselves to learn the specific approach to the instrument or repertoire of a particular teacher.
    As a semi-professional tenor, I run into this sort of hype a lot. When I reach a situation where credentials matter more than performance, I sometimes beg out. In other situations I ask, "So you studied under <blank>. What did you learn?"
    I love the smell of fixer in the morning. It smells like...creativity!
    Truly, dr bob.

  7. #17

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    I agree that "studied under" implies that you have dedicated a good protion of time with that person in a one to one relationship. Such a term would means to me that one has done an apprenticeship or was an assistant for a lenght of time.

    If you had attended a formal educational setting such as a summer program at a school or university, (say Brooks Institute or the Maine Photographic Workshops) where it was an intensive 10 or 12 weeks, then i think one could get away with it, if you qualified it by citing the circumstances: "I studied under John Sexton, Howard Bond and Sally Mann at a summer long program at the Brooks Institute."

    Otherwise I think you should qualify it with something like: "I have attended numerous workshops with photographer/teachers such as John Sexton, Howard Bond," etc. I think this demonstrates your committment to learning and improving your craft.
    "Fundamentally I think we need to rediscover a non-ironic world"
    Robert Adams

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