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  1. #141
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    +2

    And we protect them for economic reasons (oil) not other political ones.
    Economic reasons are part of the political reasons. Political reasons include giving us an Arab "ally" in the region, and military bases from which to project power. These are intertwined with oil, but not solely about oil.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    It was over 25 years ago, but there has always been a certain degree of paranoia among some "allies" .
    I was on the sidewalk, which was/is US territory. My camera was handed back to me by the DC police, after they took it from the Saudi guards. The decision to lay on the ground was my own. I didn't understand a word the guards were saying, and I wanted to appear as compliant as possible (remember, they had guns...). After it was over one of the State Dept guys said it was a smart move. If the guards had forced me beyond the gates, I would have no longer been on US property, which may have complicated my release. Still, the whole incident began due to a Secretary failing to inform his people I was supposed to be there, and I'm sure it also would have been cleared up quickly. The Secretary was very apologetic.

    As an aside, I was treated really well by other embassies. At some, I was invited in, offered food/beverages, and even met a few ambassadors.
    Thanks for the clarifications. Still, the State Department guys should have been more protective of the boundary and of a citizen, and State should have made it very clear to the Saudi Ambassador and to all embassies that that type of behavior is not tolerated. It should not have depended on a slip-up in communication.

    I mean, what if you had not acted fast enough, or made a move they didn't like, and they'd popped you? It hits the news: six armed Saudi hotheads from the embassy shoot an American citizen on American territory in the nation's capital- film at eleven. I would expect our State Dept. to think about these things...oh well.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Thanks for the clarifications. Still, the State Department guys should have been more protective of the boundary and of a citizen, and State should have made it very clear to the Saudi Ambassador and to all embassies that that type of behavior is not tolerated. It should not have depended on a slip-up in communication.

    I mean, what if you had not acted fast enough, or made a move they didn't like, and they'd popped you? It hits the news: six armed Saudi hotheads from the embassy shoot an American citizen on American soil in the nation's capital- film at eleven. I would expect our State Dept. to think about these things...oh well.
    Certainly at times TR's admonition to "Speak softly, but carry a big stick" is attractive, as is gunboat diplomacy. Sadly in the scenario you posit, an American shot on US soil by "diplomatic" personnel, our laws might not have any clout. There have been many incidents of those with diplomatic immunity involved in hideous auto accidents and we couldn't prosecute. I don't know whether any deaths were involved.

  4. #144
    eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Thanks for the clarifications. Still, the State Department guys should have been more protective of the boundary and of a citizen, and State should have made it very clear to the Saudi Ambassador and to all embassies that that type of behavior is not tolerated. It should not have depended on a slip-up in communication.
    As soon as they arrived, it was clear that the DC cops, and State Dept guys, were there to protect me. I was immediately surrounded by them, as I laid on the ground. They didn't draw guns, but they circled me (wagon train style) facing towards the guards. The whole incident, from the arrival of the guards, to the arrival/apology from the Secretary, to getting back to taking photos was only about 12-15 minutes. I think the US/DC authorities were very professional, and I felt completely safe once they arrived. I don't know how they could have been "more protective".

  5. #145
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Abusive comments when taking a shot

    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    Economic reasons are part of the political reasons. Political reasons include giving us an Arab "ally" in the region, and military bases from which to project power. These are intertwined with oil, but not solely about oil.
    Don't kid yourself. They are solely about oil. Without oil we wouldn't give a damn about "projecting power in the region."

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Don't kid yourself. They are solely about oil. Without oil we wouldn't give a damn about "projecting power in the region."
    Amen.

    Now I've come full circle with this post.

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie View Post
    Amen.

    Now I've come full circle with this post.
    Oh... so we are back to public prayer. Yippee!

  8. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Don't kid yourself. They are solely about oil. Without oil we wouldn't give a @#!*% about "projecting power in the region."
    Absolutely correct.

  9. #149

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    Try walking round Marrakesh with a Leica during Ramadan. I was given a bollocking by some local Herbert whilst taking photos of a door (no-one remotely in danger of being in the shot). Not being the smallest of people or a shy, retiring type, I taught him some Anglo-Saxon phrases he probably hadn't come across before.

    Later in the week, I had a couple of guys demanding money for being in a "general" shot of the street we were walking down. They got short shrift as well.

    The world is full of miserable sods who will chance their arm in the hope that we will shell out cash easily. If you're just shooting a general scene in a public place, then tough it out. If you want to photograph someone specific and you want to get in close, then it's only polite to ask their permission and to accede to their wishes, especially if they say "no". Candid shots can be fun but they can also be very hit and miss.
    Paul Jenkin (a late developer...)

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    Don't kid yourself. They are solely about oil. Without oil we wouldn't give a damn about "projecting power in the region."
    The director of The Institute For Strategic Studys in the U.K says Roger it's mainly about surrounding China which is seen as the major war threat in the next fifty years with a military presence, although oil is also a consideration.
    Ben



 

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