Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,940   Posts: 1,557,450   Online: 859
      
Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 77
  1. #41

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,928
    add to it, the need to update their facebook page right away.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #42
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    There is nothing I disagree in what you said although I still think my analogy is good....

    Here's a question. I understand they are nuisance and it can wreck the product or cause you to miss out the "moment." But hasn't that been true ever since the camera became affordable? I see there's more of it but that's really a problem with people becoming ME centric and generally not being aware of their surrounding, isn't it? Is someone who got a good shot and gave the couple his/her product really a new threat? (assuming he didn't obstruct you to get the image)
    With the proliferation of phones/cellphone it probably gotten far worse, and as has been said, people are far more militant in getting their shots.

    I never said it was a "threat". But it can cut into revenue.

    As I said on another thread. With social media and everyone carrying a camera of some sort now, for a pro, the landscape has changed.

    I have people now, who have expressed that they no longer want wall portraits. They want pictures they can put on their big screen and look at them when they want.

    A wall portrait with frame 24x36 say, can sell for whatever maybe $1500- $2800.

    So how do I price a file that they guy wants to use in facebook and display on his screensaver and use on his big screen TV. And if I give him the file he can use it to print his own 24x36.

    Back in the analog days if you gave away a negative, heaven forbid, it was very doubtful anybody could print it as well as I could print it. (Or someone like me)

    Now with a digital file, one retouched and tarted up, someone can use even a crappy jpeg and still find a lab to make a great print.
    Last edited by blansky; 10-15-2012 at 02:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  3. #43
    MattKing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Delta, British Columbia, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    12,599
    Images
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    .. try doing a full wedding, with all the pressure to perform, with the mother of the bride fighting with the ex-wife of her husband and the brother of the bride drunk as a skunk, and the groom performing for his buddies and the pregnant bride trying to hide the fact, and bring it all together with a cohesive wedding album as good as the ones they expect and saw in your studio, which were actually of attractive people, then see how you fare.
    Been there .....

    Wedding photography management plus high quality results were the traditional measure of a wedding photographer's value, when compared to the result obtained by amateurs.

    In today's world, the technical quality of what is produced by the amateurs is closer to the quality produced by the pro, because way more of the results are shared through screen images and small prints from similar labs.

    When I did weddings regularly, I used to encourage all of the people with cameras to take shots after I had finished with a group or formal photo. That way they stayed out of the way while I was working, and in most cases the results I obtained through skills, experience, equipment, materials and excellent lab services enabled me to sell the results to people who had shots of their own.

    Nowadays, the product that results isn't as obviously different to people.

    The last wedding that I attended and shot on medium format film was one where I was a guest - the type that bugs blansky. The official photographers (two of them) shot 100s or 1000s of images. We visited the family after I had had the film developed and proofs printed (by my pro lab).

    The couple had their "proofs" from the official photographers. Their response to the 45 or so shots I had had proofed was "they are so sharp and clear!"

    That response was no doubt due to the fact that the quantity of shots "proofed" by the official photographers mandated a budget approach to post-production and the resulting proof prints.

    I expect that blansky doesn't work that way - he probably turns out higher quality "proofs". The problem though is that their apparent quality will likely be closer to the apparent quality of the shots taken by others if the proofs are viewed on a screen - especially the screen on a phone!

    I know how difficult it is to shoot weddings, and I'll bend over backward to not only avoid getting in the way of official photographers, but to help them if the opportunity or need presents itself. At the wedding I referred to above, I essentially concentrated on taking photographs of the people I was already close to, interacting in situations that weren't likely to be caught by the official photographers. I did pose one shot though, and it was funny how quickly the official photographers followed up with an attempt to duplicate it. .
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #44
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    I haven't done weddings in a long time, but if you're still doing them good luck.

    As for the quality of wedding photographers now, it probably as it always was only worse.

    One good one to every ten trying to make "easy" money.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,928
    I *think* the "want" of the people who hire photographers has changed as well.

    Of a few that I was aware, people wanted MANY photograph of every scene, not a great photos of key moments. It's more of a number game now. They numbered in high hundreds. They wanted them on CD so they can print them. Of a few I was aware, the quality of the images I've seen were awful. No attention paid to details, no background management, no care for lighting, etc, etc, etc. I was surprised the family paid as much as they did and the pro called himself/herself a "pro" and charge money for it. I was further surprised when family was satisfied with that result. I just kept quiet and kept my opinion to myself.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  6. #46
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    I *think* the "want" of the people who hire photographers has changed as well.

    Of a few that I was aware, people wanted MANY photograph of every scene, not a great photos of key moments. It's more of a number game now. They numbered in high hundreds. They wanted them on CD so they can print them. Of a few I was aware, the quality of the images I've seen were awful. No attention paid to details, no background management, no care for lighting, etc, etc, etc. I was surprised the family paid as much as they did and the pro called himself/herself a "pro" and charge money for it. I was further surprised when family was satisfied with that result. I just kept quiet and kept my opinion to myself.
    When the photojournalism aspect crept into portrait photography, there came with that a whole lot of people who could cash in on the snapshot aspect of it. Then came digital which brought with it the pray and spray and you have the perfect storm of supply and demand got awry. Don't get me wrong there are lots of great photographers that can do great photojournalistic quality portrait work, but thousands who don't have a clue.

    With the more "posed" generation of photographers from the 60s and 70s, you had people who learned how to light and set people up in a flattering manner and how to correct "defects" in people. Not to say there weren't hacks there too but most had some idea.

    With the snapshot/candid stuff that is floating around now there are tons of bad straight from the camera crap, a bunch of whiz-bang plug-ins added to create aged or holga-esque looking images and a lot of pretty awful stuff. And weddings attract this type of "weekender".
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  7. #47
    benjiboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    U.K.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,918
    Why do amateur photographers as soon as they can operate a camera who don't need the money put themselves unnecessarily in the firing line in such a specialized area where you have to get it right first time by starting to do weddings ?, is it because for most people their only contact with professional photography has been at wedding and they want to validate their status as photographers, and prove their competence to themselves and others ?
    Ben

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,150
    Yes, I believe so Ben.

  9. #49
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,057
    Images
    38
    There are a lot of wannabes in photography.
    In the first place Kodak started it with "you push the button and we'll do the rest"
    For years the camera manufacturer's have stressed that if you use their camera you will shoot like a pro.
    We have been taught in this society for years that the only qualification necessary for a photographer is the urge and a good camera.
    Even photo journalists coined the cliche' f8 and be there.
    Photographers have been portrayed as people who love what they do and have lots of fun.
    Before I decided to go to photography school my concept was that you need a good 35mm camera and just live a fun life of taking photos of beautiful women.
    Dennis

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,150
    The other part of it is "unfulfilled dreams". Ever wonder why some jackass drives crazy and runs you off the road... same thing, plus the possibility that "in their mind" they are a world-famous race car driver.

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin