Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,550   Posts: 1,544,761   Online: 938
      
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 77
  1. #61

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,920
    Quote Originally Posted by dpurdy View Post
    Exactly. And hobby photographers should not be pretending to be pros.
    \

    Don't worry, I don't. I am proud to be an amateur hobbyist doing things the way I like to do it.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #62
    michaelbsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,106
    Images
    5

    Photograph as a permanent record of significant event

    Quote Originally Posted by dpurdy View Post
    Exactly. And hobby photographers should not be pretending to be pros.
    \
    The difference between a professional and an amateur isn't the quality of work. A skilled amateur can produce work just as fine as a skilled professional when he wants to.

    The professional must produce that work when he doesn't want to.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  3. #63
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    The difference between a professional and an amateur isn't the quality of work. A skilled amateur can produce work just as fine as a skilled professional when he wants to.

    The professional must produce that work when he doesn't want to.
    While this may be true of some photography, portrait photography actually requires some level of training and talent as probably does other disciplines of photography. And not that there aren't portrait photographers that suck, and just take snapshots but "posing" and lighting are learned skills that are part of a craft.

    But I agree that a professional does have to produce consistently and on demand.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  4. #64

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The highest state
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,916
    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    While this may be true of some photography, portrait photography actually requires some level of training and talent as probably does other disciplines of photography. And not that there aren't portrait photographers that suck, and just take snapshots but "posing" and lighting are learned skills that are part of a craft.

    But I agree that a professional does have to produce consistently and on demand.
    Thanks for posting what I would not have in a restrained manner when I read the two replies above last night...

    Ever notice how it seems to be a habit for amateurs to only focus on the low to middle end mainstream aspect of pro photography when it comes to comparing those photographer's lives to their own.....?...like, 99% of the time...?

    That is kind of like being into playing guitar or piano and telling your self there are no rock stars and that everyone who plays those instruments for money lives paycheck to paycheck performing in dive bars or at weddings....

    I call it living a lie to feel better....
    Last edited by PKM-25; 10-18-2012 at 11:11 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #65
    sharris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    49
    Images
    19
    You know..i've often wondered if that is how the artists commissioned and painting portraits for their patrons felt back in the day. In reflection, weren't they doing all their 'photoshopping' up front? Were they not interpreting the scene for what was important, composition, context, and conveyance. And then along came the photographer, 'instantly' able to record a plain 'ol image as it actually was. ...ugh...who would want THAT? Where is the art in that? Anyway, I've often thought of what that encounter must have seemed to the participants of the day...and here we are again I suppose. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Obviously, I consider photography to be very much indeed - art

  6. #66
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by sharris View Post
    You know..i've often wondered if that is how the artists commissioned and painting portraits for their patrons felt back in the day. In reflection, weren't they doing all their 'photoshopping' up front? Were they not interpreting the scene for what was important, composition, context, and conveyance. And then along came the photographer, 'instantly' able to record a plain 'ol image as it actually was. ...ugh...who would want THAT? Where is the art in that? Anyway, I've often thought of what that encounter must have seemed to the participants of the day...and here we are again I suppose. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Obviously, I consider photography to be very much indeed - art
    Good point. Those damn untalented upstart photographers.

    As I've stated lots of times there are different processes and different kinds of photographers. Analog vs Digital, same but different. 4x5 contact and 35mm sports/journalist, same but different. Wedding shooter and photojournalist, same but different. Alt process and photoshopper, same but different.

    Some photographers look at their subject and see potential, other photographers look at a scene and see perfection. Contact printers try to nail what they see, and print it. Portrait photographers plan on enhancement from the get go. Ansel's negs were great but his vision needed far more than what he saw through the viewfinder.

    So people that dis photoshop and enhancement are entirely missing the point. Some of us aren't aiming for reality.

    The painter was the same way, and along came the upstart photographer and all he wanted was reality .......until he didn't.

    People can argue this stuff until the cows come home but the field of photography art is just too vast and complicated to box people into "this is right and this is wrong".
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  7. #67

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    The highest state
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,916
    In some ways you a preaching to a dead horse Blansky. If you consider PS to be no different than a wet darkroom, then you are saying what is right for you in particular. And if someone says in their personal and sometimes professional experience that they do not see them as being the same, then they are right too.

    In the other thread, it was clearly pointed out that in terms of high dollar, high end photography purchased as art, darkroom is pulling away nicely compared to Lightroom works, with the caveat of the image having equal talent behind the lens, yet this seems to get beaten away, excuse after excuse given to flat out ignore that the customer in this genre often does care what he or she is spending his money on.

    For me it is a simple equation of what do I want to spend my life doing, a clear marketing advantage and the fact that unlike a computer, I can not order clothes on my enlarger, watch a movie on my paint brush or clone out an ex-girlfriend with my Guild six string guitar.

    But I understand where you are coming from, in terms of most of my art photography, I am not entirely trying to keep it real even though I use a strong photojournalistic ethic, I am just trying to avoid the factory of democratization that is clearly devaluing everything creative in its path...

    The computer.

  8. #68
    blansky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wine country in Northern California
    Posts
    5,029
    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    In some ways you a preaching to a dead horse Blansky. If you consider PS to be no different than a wet darkroom, then you are saying what is right for you in particular. And if someone says in their personal and sometimes professional experience that they do not see them as being the same, then they are right too.

    In the other thread, it was clearly pointed out that in terms of high dollar, high end photography purchased as art, darkroom is pulling away nicely compared to Lightroom works, with the caveat of the image having equal talent behind the lens, yet this seems to get beaten away, excuse after excuse given to flat out ignore that the customer in this genre often does care what he or she is spending his money on.

    For me it is a simple equation of what do I want to spend my life doing, a clear marketing advantage and the fact that unlike a computer, I can not order clothes on my enlarger, watch a movie on my paint brush or clone out an ex-girlfriend with my Guild six string guitar.

    But I understand where you are coming from, in terms of most of my art photography, I am not entirely trying to keep it real even though I use a strong photojournalistic ethic, I am just trying to avoid the factory of democratization that is clearly devaluing everything creative in its path...

    The computer.
    True but you're coming at it from a commercial aspect as in "what is selling" or not.

    I'm talking about it from a photographer/artistic viewpoint. What the photographer likes and wants to do, and the choices he makes doing it.

    I did black and white portraits and color portraits and darkroom work for a long time. Then I switched to digital and actually prefer everything about it. Some people don't. That's fine. But the bottom line is we both enjoy the process and the results. Everything else is marketing. As I said 100 pages back, from the photographers point of view the processes are just different and at the same time, very much the same.

    I used to take pictures, develop the neg, retouch the neg, print the picture, tone the picture, retouch the print, mount and frame the print and sell it.

    Now I do the same thing just in a different way and in a different order.

    The only thing that changed is that I used to be a more creative writer, due to the darkroom fumes.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  9. #69

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN US
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,279
    Images
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    Wedding photographers hate people like you.

    Imagine any other profession, and somebody showed up and was doing what the pro was hired to do, and undercutting their work.

    Imagine going to a doctor and while the doctor was consulting you, the friend that came along was offering advice and was diagnosing you.

    Photographers are the only profession where amateurs are able to be present and inject themselves in some way.

    Quite right. Imagine the gall of a high school baseball team scheduling their game at the same time, and in the same city, as a pro game. Imagine the gall of going to a doctor and then getting a 2nd opinion. Imagine the gall of taking photos at an event covered by pro news photographers. Imagine the gall of the warm up band outperforming the headliner.

    Other than the duty not to interfere with the professional photographers work, or copy it (by following him/her and taking the exact same photos), or violate the rules of the venue (i.e. flash in a church) it seems to me that others are entitled to take photographs. If the recipient values them more than, as opposed to in addition to, the pro's photographs then it's a reflection of the pro photographer.

    It's unfortunate that consumers don't value the kind of quality a pro can deliver. And it's unfortunate that many so-called pros can't deliver the quality they should. But a pros work is only undercut if a) they are interfered with or b) the pro results aren't materially better in the eyes of the client.

    Further, pros don't always deliver what shots are meaningful to everyone. Case in point - my nephew's wedding where the pro got lots of shots of the bride's family (who hired the photographer) but very few of the groom's family. (Somewhat in defense of the professional, the groom and his family were all from out of town, limiting the opportunity to communicate.)
    "Far more critical than what we know or do not know is what we do not want to know." - Eric Hoffer

  10. #70

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Florida, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,920
    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    People can argue this stuff until the cows come home

    Moooooooooooooooooooooooo!
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin