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  1. #71

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    I think this pro and amateur argument exists on every field in pretty much the same fashion.

    Professional construction contractor vs handy-man vs DIYer
    Seasoned IT professional vs college/high school kid who are into computers
    Wedding photographer vs weekend wonders vs friend with a camera
    Medical doctors vs patient who read up on internet postings/sites

    I used to tell junior people at my work (IT) the difference between pro and amateur is that pros know what NOT to do - that knows the limitation of his/her own skills where as inexperienced goes boldly into unknown territory (and often do so unknowingly) and hurt themselves or client.

    Now a days, everybody is claiming titles in unregulated fields. Expectation seems to be lower too. Kind of scary me thinks...
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    I think this pro and amateur argument exists on every field in pretty much the same fashion.

    Professional construction contractor vs handy-man vs DIYer
    Seasoned IT professional vs college/high school kid who are into computers
    Wedding photographer vs weekend wonders vs friend with a camera
    Medical doctors vs patient who read up on internet postings/sites

    I used to tell junior people at my work (IT) the difference between pro and amateur is that pros know what NOT to do - that knows the limitation of his/her own skills where as inexperienced goes boldly into unknown territory (and often do so unknowingly) and hurt themselves or client.

    Now a days, everybody is claiming titles in unregulated fields. Expectation seems to be lower too. Kind of scary me thinks...
    You and the last poster keep missing the point. It's not the competition, it's the interference while working.

    And the myth of the amateur happening to get a great shot, while the pro screwed up is funny.

    If whomever hired the photographer in the first place didn't hire someone good then they have themselves to blame if the wedding pictures suck.

    And a pro wedding photographer needs to be checked out to see if he really is a pro and not a weekender.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  3. #73

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    No, I didn't miss it.

    I have the same experience in my field where client in this case keeps telling me how to do my job (then why did he hire ME?) I also don't use the word competition in the same you think I did. It's a competition to take the photograph, which is interference. (not the competition to get the business - which is what you are referring to)

    Amateurs do get great shots sometimes. Pros do poorly sometimes. You have to recognize, the term "Pro" is defined very loosely often. (You addressed a while back yourself)

    Sadly, paying public know very little about how to be selective. They want a CD full of images not two dozen great shots.

    Another point I was raising is, this interference is not limited to photography. It's in every field in different but similar shape and form.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    I can't imagine trying to make a living with a camera. That would just take all the fun out of it. Good on you who can.
    Couldn't agree more.

  5. #75
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    Photograph as a permanent record of significant event

    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    ...But I agree that a professional does have to produce consistently and on demand.
    Which is why I refuse to ever have photography customers. As you've heard me state over the years, this is my hobby. I have enough grief in my professional work; why screw up my play time?

    But that puts our experiences and outlooks in totally different modalities. I can make a mistake, and I only have one taskmaster, myself. And I can take risks of a failed project without fear of loss aside from time and material. I have no bottom line. Photography is a 100% sunk cost for me.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    Which is why I refuse to ever have photography customers. As you've heard me state over the years, this is my hobby. I have enough grief in my professional work; why screw up my play time?

    But that puts our experiences and outlooks in totally different modalities. I can make a mistake, and I only have one taskmaster, myself. And I can take risks of a failed project without fear of loss aside from time and material. I have no bottom line. Photography is a 100% sunk cost for me.
    +1

    My earlier interest in photography was rekindled as an adult by photographing my daughter's childhood gymnastics. By the time she started competing nationally I was the semi-unofficial team photographer. People offered cash for my expenses, but I learned very quickly that if you accept payment you have just sold the right to complain. Life is too short for that.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  7. #77
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    Re: Photograph as a permanent record of significant event

    Quote Originally Posted by pbromaghin View Post
    +1

    My earlier interest in photography was rekindled as an adult by photographing my daughter's childhood gymnastics. By the time she started competing nationally I was the semi-unofficial team photographer. People offered cash for my expenses, but I learned very quickly that if you accept payment you have just sold the right to complain. Life is too short for that.
    This doesn't mean that the grips expressed here by the pros that are "in the trenches" aren't real and legitimate.

    At any event I always try to stay it if the way of anyone obviously getting paid. Just like if you were in a manufacturing plant I would appreciate it, if it isn't your job, that you stay out of my way. This is no more than common decency.

    But the two outlooks do point up the sometimes very different reasoning pathways folks bring to the table at APUG.

    MB
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

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