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  1. #51
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Skeletons in a closet now?

    TSK.

    PE

  2. #52

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    Along with all my anxieties.
    A politician is a man who will double cross that bridge when he comes to it.

    Oscar Levant

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Let's face it. Photography is not an inexpensive hobby. Not only is there an initial cost, there's ongoing purchase of supplies and equipment.

    Any serious hobby will cost good money and photography isn't the only one. One could easily spend just as much doing a lot of other things, and sometimes quite a bit more. I stopped considering the monetary cost of hobbies in absolute terms years ago. What I think now is, am I getting the enjoyment out of the expense I incur? If the answer is yes, then I happily spend the money. If not, cut back or discontinue altogether. I'd rather enjoy what I make and enjoy my leisure pursuit.

    As to film being expensive, I really don't think so.

    Film equipment is so cheap now that one can get a top pro level gear for nothing or close to nothing. Have you ever seen the cost of the latest digital gear, including bodies, printers, paper, and let's not forget ink cartridges? It's amazingly expensive. I got pro level bodies for film and backup and backup of backup.... for less than $600.... try doing THAT with pro level digital gear.... Also my "printer" (enlarger) was $40.... and I got a backup, and backup of a backup.... Let's try that with Epson..... Film, paper, chems... yeah, it costs money but so as inkjet paper and ink.

    I'm sure this is highly dependent upon individuals but I tend to shoot less frames with film but I end up with more images I like.

    Just to put things in prospective on my view on film, I use film because I like the result I get. I don't even care if film is technically superior in absolute technical sense. I like the organic look. I've now settled into B&W with film and color with digital pattern. I shoot mostly B&W and process it myself.
    +1 Event though 98% of my income is from digital capture... the work I do and the work that matters most to me is captured on silver crystals, and I working on a business plan for that. These digital shooters that keep opening studios are all looking very much the same.

  4. #54
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    There is useful expense and then there is useless expense. Now, I don't mean that in a strict sense of useful or useless, so perhaps productive and unproductive, but even these are wrong. All hobbies are useful and productive as they promote relaxation, and improve our mental state.

    But, take a hobby of Hi-Fi. The person invests a lot of money and in return hears relaxing music in exchange. But, when the unit is turned off, nothing remains but the memory. With Photography, there is the creativity and fun of setup and taking a picture, there is the fun of processing and printing, and this provides relaxation. However, in the end, you have something in hand that can be shared and seen over and over again. You can make contact prints, enlargements, and derivative prints. With Hi-Fi, about all you can do is speed up the record, change the volume or tone, and perhaps get more recordings by the same artist.

    So, the element of creating a product is inherent in photography which sets it apart from all other hobbies, and the money spent is "useful" or "productive" in that sense because you walk out of a session with something you made in your hand, that you can share with someone else.

    I think that is the way we should look at the uniqueness of our shared hobby.

    PE

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    So, the element of creating a product is inherent in photography which sets it apart from all other hobbies, and the money spent is "useful" or "productive" in that sense because you walk out of a session with something you made in your hand, that you can share with someone else.

    I think that is the way we should look at the uniqueness of our shared hobby.
    Well, that's true of any of the "arts and crafts" hobbies: painting, musical performance, woodworking, homemade explosives, whatever. But I'd agree with everything you said, in that broader scope.

    It's interesting that some of us intentionally pursue photographic products that are ephemeral, like in-camera "sun prints". Not sure if it says anything in general about the people who go in for that stuff, vs. the people who are heavily interested in making things archival.

    Edit: Actually, I bet the hi-fi people would say that the real "product" of their money and energy is the system, not the music per se. So they too probably feel like they come away from it with something concrete in hand and the satisfaction of having built it themselves.

    -NT
    Last edited by ntenny; 10-30-2012 at 05:04 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: still thinking of more things to say
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  6. #56

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    Great points PE!

    By the way, at my job we use the chemical phenoxyethanol. Our internal code for this is PE. I cant help but think of you every time I grab a bottle of PE now!!

  7. #57

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    Just think,

    all the time and effort involved in making 96 images for all of human history born before 19th century!
    This would take you weeks of work! (Im talking here more of painting and drawing, but even with wet plates this would be a big effort.)

    I think we all take the ability to make images whenever and wherever of whatever we like with so little trouble for granted!




    Karl

  8. #58
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    Nick;

    You are right. I painted with too narrow a brush. Thank you for the correction.

    Ratty;

    The word Phenoxyethanol takes me back to grad school. I used it there for something, but I just cannot remember the use I made of it. One of these or related compounds had a very pleasant smell and was used in attar of roses while another related compound smelled like the monkey cage at the zoo. I just can't remember which ones. Too long ago and far away.

    Phenoxy Ethanol (PE)

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Nick;

    You are right. I painted with too narrow a brush. Thank you for the correction.

    Ratty;

    The word Phenoxyethanol takes me back to grad school. I used it there for something, but I just cannot remember the use I made of it. One of these or related compounds had a very pleasant smell and was used in attar of roses while another related compound smelled like the monkey cage at the zoo. I just can't remember which ones. Too long ago and far away.

    Phenoxy Ethanol (PE)
    Phenoxyethanol has a very distinct smell. I like it but the Chinese hate it so I have to use it carefully. It has many uses but I use it for emulsion coupling as well as biostatic properties. Helps our emulsions blend into water nice and easy too.

  10. #60
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    Ahhh, I did not know that you were doing emulsion work. PE is a good auxiliary solvent.

    PE

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