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Thread: Infinite shots

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    How often has human theory been wrong?

    If the universe is not infinite, what is beyond the 'end'? Surely there must be something there.
    Knowledge can be wrong if the theory is wrong. Nothing is definitive and what was right one day could be wrong the day after. Newton's laws were considered as right for centuries and were replaced in the 20th century by other laws (einstein et al.). But if you want to send a satellite around the Earth, it is way enough. This approach is much more constructive than belief (or dogma) which explains nothing.

    Back to the (in)finite universe. What is beyond the end? Nothing as there is no "end". Difficult to visualize 'cause it does not fit our everyday's experience but it is one logical way to explain what astronomers observe.

    If the universe was infinite (without limit), reality would be much more difficult to explain. back to the dogma thing: an assertion without any explanation.

  2. #42
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by litody View Post
    Look for the definition of Universe. It doesn't mean everything. It means everything we know about. We can't define what we don't know about or don't have the mathematical tools to predict. i.e. Nobody has a clue about what exists or not outside of the universe and just because we think something must exist outside the universe doesn't make it part of the universe until we can prove it and just because we don't know about it doesn't make the universe infinite.
    Simple answer for you is that because the universe is expanding it should be bleeding obvious it isn't infinite and there is something outside it for it to expand into but we don't know what.
    Here's an interesting documentary regarding time. It deals with some of the duplicity I'm referring to. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics...ml#fabric-time

    Universe has many definitions, depending on who you ask.
    http://www.yourdictionary.com/universe
    http://www.britannica.com/search?query=universe
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/universe?s=t
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/universe
    http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/universe
    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...itish/universe
    etc...
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #43

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    yes I know but astrophysicists seem to be in agreement that it is expanding and therefore if its infinite, infinite doesn't mean what you and I think it does. It's a philosophical problem for you to satisfy yourself with. Do you think it's infinite?

    I would add that since human knowledge is very far from being infinite we can only define within those finite limits of knowledge. Therefore it is impossible define something as being infinite since we don't have the knowledge to do so. That is what expanding the boundaries of knowledge are all about. Of course there will be differences of opinion when you are dealing with unproved theories. Until the theories are proved they are just theories and not fact. And until knowledge is infinite there will always be uncertainty and whilst there is uncertainty you can't say the unverse is infinite or not but at the moment we have applied the limits of our knowledge to the definition of the universe and that doesn't include everything so currently the universe is finite.
    Just my opinion YMMV
    Last edited by litody; 11-08-2012 at 08:31 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #44

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    and another thing. All those dictionaries keep saying space. What is space? Answer that and you'll be doing well.

  5. #45
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by litody View Post
    yes I know but astrophysicists seem to be in agreement that it is expanding and therefore if its infinite, infinite doesn't mean what you and I think it does. It's a philosophical problem for you to satisfy yourself with. Do you think it's infinite?

    I would add that since human knowledge is very far from being infinite we can only define within those finite limits of knowledge. Therefore it is impossible define something as being infinite since we don't have the knowledge to do so. That is what expanding the boundaries of knowledge are all about. Of course there will be differences of opinion when you are dealing with unproved theories. Until the theories are proved they are just theories and not fact. And until knowledge is infinite there will always be uncertainty and whilst there is uncertainty you can't say the unverse is infinite or not but at the moment we have applied the limits of our knowledge to the definition of the universe and that doesn't include everything so currently the universe is finite.
    Just my opinion YMMV
    So, there's consensus among a group of people who are not quite sure whether they are correct? I'll take that as a definition any day.
    I understand where you're coming from, and I don't wish to contradict you. But until somebody can prove that 'whatever is around us out there' is one way or the other, we can assume anything we want, theorizing ad nauseum, including an infinite place.

    What is space? It is a concept invented by humans, and a very long time ago, so the definition will only be as good as our current understanding of it.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    What is space? It is a concept invented by humans, and a very long time ago, so the definition will only be as good as our current understanding of it.
    exactly

  7. #47
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    For that matter what is knowledge? Is it the count of synapses that have arranged into a pattern in the sum of all humans who have had brains that had synapses in them? And because the number of humans who have thus far existed can be counted, it's finite?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Burk View Post
    For that matter what is knowledge? Is it the count of synapses that have arranged into a pattern in the sum of all humans who have had brains that had synapses in them? And because the number of humans who have thus far existed can be counted, it's finite?
    And 'knowledge' is only expanded when people look beyond conventionally accepted 'knowledge'.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    But until somebody can prove that 'whatever is around us out there' is one way or the other, we can assume anything we want, theorizing ad nauseum, including an infinite place.
    I would agree as long as your theory matches with the observation. Everyone is free to believe what he wants but it has nothing to do with knowledge and is somewhat purely sterile (apart from the psychological aspect).

  10. #50
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Meanwhile those infinite amount of monkeys do seem to be spending an awful long time trying to reload those leica IIs.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon



 

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