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  1. #91
    JBrunner's Avatar
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    Everything in this thread is pure speculation. What could have been done, what should have been done, what you or I could do, or would do, will always be speculation. We do not know.

    I have on occasion saved people from greater or lesser peril at some risk to myself. On a few occasions I have chosen courses of action or inaction that were short of "heroic". I can't tell you the exact reasons for either, it just happens. The outcome of any of it, as anyone who has been in these kinds of situation will tell you, is pure fate. There is no conscious decision, you just do or do not, and you don't know which it was, or what you could or should have done, but didn't, until it is over.

    What we do know is that a man pushed another man off the platform in front of an oncoming train. We know who was killed and by whom. Everything else is lost to the fog of war, even, most likely, to those present. Perhaps for someone who was present there is some miserable hindsight available. It may or may not be 20/20, and i feel for that person. But there is no hindsight whatsoever for armchair speculators. We like to talk big, but we weren't there. We don't know. I find it fascinating that so many think they do.
    Last edited by JBrunner; 12-12-2012 at 10:27 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    That's just, like, my opinion, man...

  2. #92
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    There are some stations on the London Underground now which are totally sealed off between the platform and the track with sliding doors which only open when a train is present. I expect to see a lot more of these in the future.

    http://www.flickriver.com/photos/news46/3404145349/

    Obviously the train driver now has to stop in exactly the right place!


    Steve.
    In Paris Line 1 has automatic doors. I also suppose these will be the norm in the future, as they can be "retrofitted" to old platform. I wonder what happens when the crowd is "pushing" to enter thus slowing the closing of the doors.

    With the double doors the persons trying to catch the train no matter what will slow the closing of the doors much more I suppose. Some people might remain with bags, umbrellas etc. "in between".

    Now that I think about it, one of the things that slow underground train operations is that people must first get off, then people can get on. People trying to get on, in crowded stations and situations, are an obstacle to people getting off.

    With modern trains which have carriages communicating with each other (a long "snake" where you can walk freely) tube trains could be optimized so that let's say the first carriages are for getting on only, and last carriages are for getting off only. That would make the pavement traffic "one way". All the internal paths of the tube stations could be optimized so as to avoid double senses of circulation.

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  3. #93
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I know some cities (Toronto? Boston?) have subways where there are platforms on both sides of the train, so the doors can be opened on one side for passengers to exit before the doors on the other side of the train open to let passengers enter. The (relatively) new AirTrain to JFK airport in Manhattan has glassed-in platforms with sliding doors. New York's subways are old, and I could imagine any kind of retrofitting would be a challenge and a huge expense that most people would argue would be better applied to building more lines to reduce crowding.
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  4. #94
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Yes- trying to retrofit the NYC system would probably run into the billion dollar range, because you'd not only have to modify every station, but you'd have to replace all the trains so that they fit the station gates. And the stations are not standard sizes - some have higher ceilings, some lower, and the platforms are different sizes as well. Parts of the system date back to 1885, and the main underground network opened in 1904. So you're dealing with well over a century's worth of construction styles and evolving design standards.

  5. #95

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    What David and FlyingCamera said...

    There are some stations where the standing area is less wide than the inside of the train, and you are basically pressed against the wall when the train pulls in... not many, but there's at least one or two like that. They ARE making new trains and new stations that are updated that will open soon (like the next few years) but not all of them certainly, just a few. NY is just too old of a system to retrofit. People just need to stop being stupid... I blame the people not the the train system.

  6. #96
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    People just need to stop being stupid...
    That's never going to happen.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    That's never going to happen.


    Steve.
    +1

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    There are some stations on the London Underground now which are totally sealed off between the platform and the track with sliding doors which only open when a train is present. I expect to see a lot more of these in the future.

    http://www.flickriver.com/photos/news46/3404145349/

    Obviously the train driver now has to stop in exactly the right place!


    Steve.
    As it is for trams in all the airports I've been to.
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  9. #99
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    That's never going to happen.
    Of course it will. A stupid person can only get run over by a train once. After that, he won't be stupid anymore. He'll be dead.
    Randy S.

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  10. #100
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    As it is for trams in all the airports I've been to.
    That's much easier to do at airport rail systems - they're all new, and can be designed and built to standards, and retrofits are easy because the entire system is built to the same spec. About the only thing standard on the NYC Subway is the rail gauge and the voltage the trains run on.

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