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  1. #81
    MartinCrabtree's Avatar
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    I cannot/will not judge the photographer. Only he knows whether he could have. However the decision to publish was one that was made with ample time. For that I condemn the editor.

  2. #82

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    lotsa folks end up being pulled off death row in a certain country don`t they?
    I mean it is really easy and, I will add,a base human reaction to `think you know'
    It takes real intelligence to `know you know'
    If you where not there to witness, you have NO place making judgement.
    Oh, and BTW, saying you would `do' something is plain BS.
    Only an action can speak to that - words mean nothing.
    This smacks of old world tittle tattle,where fact is produced by innuendo and rumour.

  3. #83

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    I refuse to defend this photographer. He did "do something". He took a photo. A gallant and brave soul he is. What I "do know" is that my first reaction would NOT be take take a picture. I would much rather be a coward and flee in unthinking panic than remain and "make the decision" to take a photo instead of at least attempting to help.

  4. #84
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    I'm with the photographer with both hands and feet.

    First, I don't understand how people don't understand that lifting a man in that circumstance is a very risky exercise. You can be a "hero" if you do it, therefore you cannot be a "coward" if you don't do it. Nobody has the "must" to risk his life to help others. It's noble and generous if you do it. It's human and fine if you don't.

    The fingerpointing case would be founded only if helping the person in danger would entail no personal risk for the helper.

    That important point made, taking pictures is always fine in my book. If I had the readiness of spirit, and if I were there, I would take pictures of bank robberies, firearm exchange, and anything else. "Intervening" is something devoted to the police. People without cameras call the police. People with a camera take pictures which can be very important. I know with modern phones that's a bit blurry. Documenting any event can be precious one day.

    (Hypothesis: the person doesn't die because the train manages to stop in time. The person sues the NY underground and wins thanks, in part, also to the images taken by the photographer. Or the person dies and the shock created by the pictures makes people think about remedies so that it doesn't happen again. No pictures, no story).

    That particular photographer is a news photographer and he did exactly what he is supposed to do. Your tire fitter is supposed to fit tires, your dentist is supposed to cure teeth, and your news photographer is supposed to take pictures of anything newsworthy in front of him. Had he done it for the vile money, so be it. The tire fitter and the dentist do it for the vile money as well.

    It's too easy to point fingers. Don't judge, and you won't be judged.

    And in any case tube trains are normally bound to enter the station at a certain slow speed so that they can break in such circumstances. Nobody seems to blame the real culprit, NY underground, for the sloppy security measures.

    Ten seconds at each station could be "wasted" in a slow approach and it would be much more sensible. I think if I bet the train was approaching the station at an excessive speed I would likely win.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  5. #85

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    There would likely not be as much conversation about the man that died and subway safety if this man had not taken photos that he did.
    Bachelor of Fine Arts and Bachelor of Arts: Journalism - University of Arkansas 2014

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  6. #86
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    Pop Quiz: A train is about to hit someone and you have your camera. What do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    I'm with the photographer with both hands and feet.

    First, I don't understand how people don't understand that lifting a man in that circumstance is a very risky exercise. You can be a "hero" if you do it, therefore you cannot be a "coward" if you don't do it. Nobody has the "must" to risk his life to help others. It's noble and generous if you do it. It's human and fine if you don't.

    The fingerpointing case would be founded only if helping the person in danger would entail no personal risk for the helper.

    That important point made, taking pictures is always fine in my book. If I had the readiness of spirit, and if I were there, I would take pictures of bank robberies, firearm exchange, and anything else. "Intervening" is something devoted to the police. People without cameras call the police. People with a camera take pictures which can be very important. I know with modern phones that's a bit blurry. Documenting any event can be precious one day.

    (Hypothesis: the person doesn't die because the train manages to stop in time. The person sues the NY underground and wins thanks, in part, also to the images taken by the photographer. Or the person dies and the shock created by the pictures makes people think about remedies so that it doesn't happen again. No pictures, no story).

    That particular photographer is a news photographer and he did exactly what he is supposed to do. Your tire fitter is supposed to fit tires, your dentist is supposed to cure teeth, and your news photographer is supposed to take pictures of anything newsworthy in front of him. Had he done it for the vile money, so be it. The tire fitter and the dentist do it for the vile money as well.

    It's too easy to point fingers. Don't judge, and you won't be judged.

    And in any case tube trains are normally bound to enter the station at a certain slow speed so that they can break in such circumstances. Nobody seems to blame the real culprit, NY underground, for the sloppy security measures.

    Ten seconds at each station could be "wasted" in a slow approach and it would be much more sensible. I think if I bet the train was approaching the station at an excessive speed I would likely win.
    I agree with all of the above, well said.

    Also, being that I ride NYC trains often, they do come in at excessively high speed a lot of the time, I actually usually close my eyes because the wind brings up dust from the tracks which sometimes gets in your eye.

    Also, anyone in NY usually looks at the tracks and has a plan if they fall in, it's just habit, ok where is the safe spot, just incase, it's almost subconscious.

    And as I keep saying, that track isn't even locked in, the guy could have easily walked to the other side or off the track with plenty of clearance room for the train.


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  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkroom317 View Post
    There would likely not be as much conversation about the man that died and subway safety if this man had not taken photos that he did.
    I don't agree with the implication that the photos are a good thing because... those first images were taken during the time that help could have been "attempted" WITHOUT risk to the photographer. Things like this make me want to vomit.

  8. #88
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    Pop Quiz: A train is about to hit someone and you have your camera. What do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    I don't agree with the implication that the photos are a good thing because... those first images were taken during the time that help could have been "attempted" WITHOUT risk to the photographer. Things like this make me want to vomit.
    You do realize how fast those trains come in right? I honestly think 20 seconds is a stretch, more like 8 would be my guess... Just saying, I don't think there was time that would be "safe" unless it would be over a mute, to reason with a drunk belligerent who is also panicked, it takes time, and "reaching out" to pull him up would certainly make 2 deaths in that short time frame...


    ~Stone

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  9. #89

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    All I'm trying to convey is that he could have, and should have, at least tried to help rather than take a photo. That precious time, even if only a couple of seconds, could have been used rushing to the edge of the track where maybe, just maybe, he would have had time to pull the man out of the way. It's incorrect to assume the drunk would have fought the help. The article clearly stated that he was trying to climb out of the way. AND, BTW, I wonder how long the photographer watched him trying to climb out before he took the photo. What makes anyone assume I'm suggesting the photographer risk his own life? What is the risk in at least running in that direction? I'm not suggesting that he put himself in harm's way... that's just false argument to make excuses.

  10. #90
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    All I'm trying to convey is that he could have, and should have, at least tried to help rather than take a photo. That precious time, even if only a couple of seconds, could have been used rushing to the edge of the track where maybe, just maybe, he would have had time to pull the man out of the way. It's incorrect to assume the drunk would have fought the help. The article clearly stated that he was trying to climb out of the way. AND, BTW, I wonder how long the photographer watched him trying to climb out before he took the photo. What makes anyone assume I'm suggesting the photographer risk his own life? What is the risk in at least running in that direction? I'm not suggesting that he put himself in harm's way... that's just false argument to make excuses.
    Running over and trying to help a panicked drunk person IS putting yourself in harms way, even if not fighting back he would scramble to cling to you inevitably pulling you in if you lost your footing in the struggle, ESPECIALLY if you are old and feeble..

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