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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkroom317 View Post
    There would likely not be as much conversation about the man that died and subway safety if this man had not taken photos that he did.
    I don't agree with the implication that the photos are a good thing because... those first images were taken during the time that help could have been "attempted" WITHOUT risk to the photographer. Things like this make me want to vomit.

  2. #82

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    Pop Quiz: A train is about to hit someone and you have your camera. What do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    I don't agree with the implication that the photos are a good thing because... those first images were taken during the time that help could have been "attempted" WITHOUT risk to the photographer. Things like this make me want to vomit.
    You do realize how fast those trains come in right? I honestly think 20 seconds is a stretch, more like 8 would be my guess... Just saying, I don't think there was time that would be "safe" unless it would be over a mute, to reason with a drunk belligerent who is also panicked, it takes time, and "reaching out" to pull him up would certainly make 2 deaths in that short time frame...


    ~Stone

    The Noteworthy Ones - Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1 / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic

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  3. #83

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    All I'm trying to convey is that he could have, and should have, at least tried to help rather than take a photo. That precious time, even if only a couple of seconds, could have been used rushing to the edge of the track where maybe, just maybe, he would have had time to pull the man out of the way. It's incorrect to assume the drunk would have fought the help. The article clearly stated that he was trying to climb out of the way. AND, BTW, I wonder how long the photographer watched him trying to climb out before he took the photo. What makes anyone assume I'm suggesting the photographer risk his own life? What is the risk in at least running in that direction? I'm not suggesting that he put himself in harm's way... that's just false argument to make excuses.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    All I'm trying to convey is that he could have, and should have, at least tried to help rather than take a photo. That precious time, even if only a couple of seconds, could have been used rushing to the edge of the track where maybe, just maybe, he would have had time to pull the man out of the way. It's incorrect to assume the drunk would have fought the help. The article clearly stated that he was trying to climb out of the way. AND, BTW, I wonder how long the photographer watched him trying to climb out before he took the photo. What makes anyone assume I'm suggesting the photographer risk his own life? What is the risk in at least running in that direction? I'm not suggesting that he put himself in harm's way... that's just false argument to make excuses.
    Running over and trying to help a panicked drunk person IS putting yourself in harms way, even if not fighting back he would scramble to cling to you inevitably pulling you in if you lost your footing in the struggle, ESPECIALLY if you are old and feeble..

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Running over and trying to help a panicked drunk person IS putting yourself in harms way, even if not fighting back he would scramble to cling to you inevitably pulling you in if you lost your footing in the struggle, ESPECIALLY if you are old and feeble..
    Well, I'm not that old but I'm plenty feeble. From my perspective I suppose it wouldn't be much loss to the world anyway.

  6. #86

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    Pop Quiz: A train is about to hit someone and you have your camera. What do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old-N-Feeble View Post
    Well, I'm not that old but I'm plenty feeble. From my perspective I suppose it wouldn't be much loss to the world anyway.
    Now now, don't be all self deprecating ...

  7. #87
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    In these situations one cannot just make an attempt and cease doing it if it doesn't work.
    If you have no "handle" where to keep yourself your attempt to lean over the embankment to lift the other person can easily make you fall inside the trap. The man is grasping your hand and pulling you toward him with all his weight (as he's lifting himself) and you will not manage to lean backward. Gravity will work against you "big time".

    A different case would be if, say, the man already had a knee above the embankment and you only have to help him for the last push.

    For me it would be basically impossible to lift a man who is inside a hole up to his chest just by the sheer force of my arms/legs.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Running over and trying to help a panicked drunk person IS putting yourself in harms way, even if not fighting back he would scramble to cling to you inevitably pulling you in if you lost your footing in the struggle, ESPECIALLY if you are old and feeble..
    Chances are the helper would be pulled over as the drunk climbed out. Dealing with intoxicated individuals is not for the faint of heart.

    Where were the guard rails, the security, track and train avoidance equipment, and on and on. Statistics, that's what it comes down to. It was predetermined that xxx number of people would be injured and or killed in the subway. There are no absolutes in this world. Statistically next time or two maybe some citizen will save someone. And out of the saves stistically a few will be given the hero award as outstanding citizens which makes everything look really civilized.

    If the people in this thread had their vote on whether to help or not help it would graph out as a nice bell curve.
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    Where were the guard rails, the security, track and train avoidance equipment.
    There are some stations on the London Underground now which are totally sealed off between the platform and the track with sliding doors which only open when a train is present. I expect to see a lot more of these in the future.

    http://www.flickriver.com/photos/news46/3404145349/

    Obviously the train driver now has to stop in exactly the right place!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    This is one of those obnoxious questions like: If both your parents fell in the river and you could only save one, which one would you save?
    One day in high school, I got tired of those stupid obnoxious questions, to I answered the teacher by saying, "I would walk away saving neither and thus relieving myself of the possible future guilt of not saving the other one." The teacher stopped asking questions like that any more.
    That's a pretty twisted thing for a teacher to be asking. There would be inquiries, strikes, riots and media hysteria if that happened today.

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