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Thread: For Men Only

  1. #71
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    3 to 1 ratio of what?
    Three women for every one man enrolled.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

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  2. #72
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    My general experience and sensation is very much aligned with what Helinophoto says. That is naturally based on personal experience and general, broad sensations. It's all too natural none of us have any scientific studies regarding the difference between men and woman in approaching things.

    I'm very sorry to see that a very normal and legitimate opinion is taken as a pretext for the old same accusation of sexism. We'll end up we will not be able to say we don't like Chinese restaurants to avoid being politically incorrect toward the Chinese

    I think, and again it is my sensation and my generalization, that really men have a more algorithmic, logic and punctual attitude toward things in normal day life matters (that exclude professional matters, of course).

    What David says is, I think, perfectly adherent to my experience because it involves a hobby, not-professional attitude toward photography. Male non-professional photographers tend to obsess with gear much more than females, and in general much more than necessary.

    When one starts talking about professional activity, behaviour between men and woman tends toward uniformity*. And that implies that professional woman will care more than non-professional woman about the technical aspect, the gear etc. and professional men will tend to obsess less about gear than non-professional men. In business you have to know the gear and you don't have to obsess about it either. Business is where male mentality and woman mentality meet half way.

    That said, I don't have any scientific evidence for this, I don't consider what I wrote above "sexist", and I don't care if anybody considers it "sexist", either.

    * That applies to school courses as well, if and when there is a professional interest. If a photography course is chosen just because it's an easy way to get "points" and avoid more difficult subjects, then we have a different situation.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
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  3. #73
    Helinophoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    <snip>
    and people demeaning the type of photography that many women choose to do as being some kind of "chickening" out. These attitudes pervade almost every aspect in the field of photography.
    You are totally missing the point I was making.
    If you pass on something because it is hard, even if you are able to do it, it's chickening out (or even lazy).
    It goes for both sexes, just for clarifying that. (this thread was concerning women, sorry if I don't have a disclaimer before every statement)
    - I've NEVER once hinted that using natural light for photography is anything less than using flash-based light, where do you guys come up with these claims?

    I use it all the time myself, jeez....

    "Misogynistic", "demeaning to women", what the...

    Whatever, I'm done with this thread, you're not even reading the text, you are reading between the lines (surprise, there isn't anything there).
    Last edited by Helinophoto; 01-05-2013 at 09:00 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by whowantstoast View Post
    Both of our local photo stores are staffed by an equal number of men and women, and partially owned by women. I also meet a lot of photographers in the field, and I would give women the edge there. On other photo sites my contacts are about 50/50, with the women being far more productive. I don't think they're less into gear, I think they may be less into talking about it. Honestly, I think we tend to assume that we dominate photography and we act like it, and so the places we congregate, and the way we talk about it, can be off-putting to women. I think what I'm saying is that this question is more about us than them.
    Yup.

    And, I'm in awe of how Bethe and Suzanne have been able to respond to "Chriscrawfordphoto" and "Helinophoto". I tried, but just managed to sputter.

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    Last edited by dwross; 01-05-2013 at 09:47 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: corrected sputter-induced typo
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  5. #75

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    - I've NEVER once hinted that using natural light for photography is anything less than using flash-based light, where do you guys come up with these claims?
    Really?:

    They give up, or they shoot "only using natural light", which is chickening out in my book.
    Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

    You're just upset that you've been called out on your nonsense, which is usually the case when that happens to people.

  6. #76
    jnanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helinophoto View Post
    Women are (and please read this) IMO just as capable as men in the technical areas, but they have rarely that interest, their interest (my experience) lies in the creative aspect and they are put off by the logical and theoretical aspects of photography.
    and it is unfortunate that most of the men who i know who are either working photographers, or forum frequenters
    are only for the most part interested in gear and the technical aspects of photography. instead of making interesting photographs
    about anything at all.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutterlight View Post
    Really?:



    Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

    You're just upset that you've been called out on your nonsense, which is usually the case when that happens to people.
    No, I was pointing out if one use it as an excuse, to avoid learning theory and techniques, because it may seem hard or not that intersting.
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    "Nice picture, you must have an amazing camera."
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  8. #78
    Helinophoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    and it is unfortunate that most of the men who i know who are either working photographers, or forum frequenters
    are only for the most part interested in gear and the technical aspects of photography. instead of making interesting photographs
    about anything at all.
    I don't disagree with that (and I am sure I fit right in there as well) ^^
    -
    "Nice picture, you must have an amazing camera."
    Visit my photography blog at: http://helino-photo.blogspot.com

  9. #79
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    First, I agree with everything Sly and Suzanne have said. And I have a nearly 3-year-old who does his best to keep me from getting any photography done.

    As far as this:
    How many of those students stayed involved in photography after graduating or leaving school? As I mentioned, exactly ONE of the women in my college photo classes stuck with it after graduating. ONE. Out of 14 or 15. Out of the 10 men in the program, 6 are still doing photography. Four of us are fulltime pros. So is the one woman.
    My classes were not part of any degree program. Everyone in the class was there to learn more about using the darkroom and to get better as a photographer/printer.

    I also offer one huge reason why many believe women have little interest in learning the technical aspects - from an early age in school, girls are usually pushed towards the house stuff and boys are pushed towards the scientific and outside stuff. Studies have shown that this leads towards both sexes believing that girls don't understand the technical parts as well (just read an article yesterday, in fact). In school, boys are usually the ones who speak up, not the girls. Girls are taught to be quiet and listen. Boys are taught that being raucous is fine. Women who are used to being around groups of men can usually dish it out as well as take it, and will stand up for themselves (as we're seeing here). Just because you think women are shying away from the technical stuff by not posting relentlessly about it, doesn't mean we don't like the technical part. More women do need to be pushed towards science in school - any of you with girls had better be thinking about this, too. It takes overcoming a social bias, though. And apparently a world-wide one.

    I'll agree that part of why you don't see many women in photography forums online is because of many of these attitudes from guys. But I do see 40-50% of local photo clubs being women. In person, the attitude doesn't come through as much. On the web, the anonymity lets the misogynistic attitudes come out. Also, I've read several posts here from guys who seem to be letting their wife do the cooking, cleaning and kid wrangling so they can do the photography. I know I'm doing all of that (plus 3 dogs and sometimes a deployed husband).

  10. #80
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    This thread is telling and potent and revealing. I have confirmed a lot here. Regard this:

    Originally Posted by Alan W
    "And yet all but 2 or 3 comments on this thread are from men.David's original question hasn't been fully answered."

    First, my TITLE was geared to guarantee much 'looking' at what I had written. I did not want my post to be buried and insignificant. This thread is more important than the mere demographic aspect and this thread has so far proved that that assessment is all too correct. WHY?

    There has been, with some, a mild inference that I just could be 'sexist' and even misogynist for having dared pose the question. The defense mechanisms are alive and well with us.

    SuzanneR, the moderator, is correct when she says that there is a decided difference between photography shows and camera shows. Point well made, my dear, and I learned something from that, along with many other affirmations as to the predominance of the female sex at classes that teach photography. But, SuzanneR, I also sensed a bit of distress that I have not already SEEN (or perceived) that dichotomy and I did feel that, in your view, I fell handily into the category of being a "typical, insensitive male".

    Is SuzanneR biased? Not particularly. She is evincing what most (male and female) are thinking about in today's politically correct environment by seeking, always, to uncloak a vestige of prejudice that must be 'outed' and dissected for benefit of public scrutiny. She is rather innocent but reflects a society whereby we have become afraid to offer our true thoughts for fear of ignominy.

    Some have a hard time admitting the FACT that men are more prone to like gadgets more than women do. Yet, some see this vocal affirmation as proof that women are being 'put down'. My opinion was, and remains, that since the age of chivalry was assassinated by women's liberation we should welcome women as equals and support their rights on a level playing field; but a playing field that ALSO removes the previous advantages that 'made up' for their inequality in the past. Some are compelled to see that advice as improper paradigm and feel that the 'advantage' should remain (just like the Bush tax cuts for the ultra-rich!). But some see it as sexist.

    One thing is for certain: this thread is causing inner feelings to foment and emerge into a formidable topic that seems to have less and less to do with my original, rather innocent query. - David Lyga
    Last edited by David Lyga; 01-05-2013 at 10:10 AM. Click to view previous post history.



 

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