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View Poll Results: What is THE LIMIT of appropriate subject matter for APUG

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69. You may not vote on this poll
  • Only Ansel Adams type scenery

    5 7.25%
  • Above+ some portraits and kittens are ok

    3 4.35%
  • Above+ a FEW scenes of the real world like semi harsh news - occupy wall street / hoarders home

    3 4.35%
  • Above+ Implied Nude girls holding flowers & sunlight, light war destroyed structures, no people

    1 1.45%
  • Above+ Full Nude but no lower genitals showing and only smiles, sad images of hungry orphans

    8 11.59%
  • Above+ Full Nude w/ genitals exposed, Vietnam starving naked children in street, birth w/ crowning

    12 17.39%
  • Above+ Full Nude w/ macro shots of vaginas & penises, dead warriors in piles on a battlefield

    37 53.62%
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  1. #1
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Censorship and judgement on APUG and in the world...

    I've been giving a lot of thought about a piece of work of mine that has come under criticism. The main thing that bothered me most wasn't that the image was criticized as being bad for aesthetic reasons like the composition or lighting etc, but for the title and the subject matter. The title and subject matter had to do with something that plagues the modeling world, anorexia/bulimia.

    I come to APUG because of it's strong foundation of talented individuals, the ability to discuss film and the knowledge base that helps improve my ability to develop photos in a non digital fashion. I don't really come here to be criticized about who I am as a person, nor my perspective on the world, especially since an online persona is only a vague interpretation of who I am and what I represent. What bothers me most about judgement is that, from an outside perspective you never really know the truth, you don't know me or my personality, you don't see my own pain or my perspective, you don't see anything but an image, and a title, something that does not sum up the embodiment of who I am, or what the entire scope of a piece of work is about, I guess some of that is part of what the error in film is, in that it takes but a moment and not a larger scope. But I didn't post it in the critique forum, I posted it in the members gallery, to display some of my work and styles. To me, the point of posting anything here, especially here, is to be guided and supported and encouraged, but not to be treated as less than human, and told you are basically scum. I expect that kind of thing if I were to have an opening somewhere in a gallery, there will always be criticism from the outside world, but this is inside, this is the world of photographers, what should be a sort of safe haven from all of that.

    I know another image that came under fire semi-recently I never saw it, but hearing the subject matter I was surprised. Maybe because this is specifically film and not specifically a model/fashion/portrait arena there are some that don't understand the scope of the genre my piece was in. It's not even the final piece I would use to hang, but rather an additional image I chose because it prevented the viewer from seeing any nudity which I felt was best to keep off of the internet.

    I guess I'm posting this out of frustration. I'm not a bad person, not even a little bit. And to be referred to so harshly and hurtfully, it really bothered me. There were in fact two pieces that were referenced in the attack, but in different ways, but from the same individual, who is supposedly a respected member of this group, but yet, I can't understand how she could be so hurtful toward me saying the things she said, without knowing anything about me, that she could be so respected. You don't spit on someone and then get praise, or you shouldn't.

    I have this philosophy about censorship, it's a main theme in a project I'm working on, and so unlike the other person whom's work came under scrutiny, I refuse to take mine down.

    I'm not writing this to stir up trouble even though I recognize that is most likely an outcome, but I'm posting to ask...

    Is this a place where we should only post pretty trees and scenery and close up portraits of faces using old school wet plates, but not a place to post any kind of modeling work? Is that the line? I thought great art is about invoking emotion and empathy with the subject, to see and also to participate in that moment, but to take that in with us, to share the joy or the pain, but not to redirect it elsewhere.

    Am I wrong? I'm truly afraid to post more of my work now, I have much to share, but now, I hesitate with every image, is this the environment we wish to foster here? one of fear?... this poll is written almost in jest, but I figure it's a good way to judge how I next choose to share my work.

    EDIT: Because not everyone is a subscriber I'm being asked about the image... for those non-subscribers...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by StoneNYC; 01-25-2013 at 04:18 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Not everyone is a Subscriber and can't see the image

  2. #2

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    Hey Stone... welcome to the internet. I missed your contraversial photo(s) but getting attacked is not new and not unique to you. It happens all day long by nameless, faceless people who feel they can say whaever they want to another nameless, faceless person. Tis a pity... but that's the way it always has been on the internet. I'd like to think that people who are jerks on the internet are really nice people when face-to-face... but I wouldn't put money on it.
    Last edited by BrianShaw; 01-25-2013 at 03:51 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #3
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Where can I find this image you are so worked up about to comment?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  4. #4

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    p.s. In my heart-of-hearts, though, I think most people are quite good about reading other peoples "online personas" and most people generally transmit an on-line persona that is fairly consistent with who they are in real life... real names or not.

  5. #5

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    As I recall, the complaint was about what you wrote and have written, not the image. She had an opinion and expressed it. That's not censorship. Get over it.

    You know what they say about opinions and assholes.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

  6. #6
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    If it didn't violate a forum policy or federal/state law, then don't worry about it.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  7. #7
    tony lockerbie's Avatar
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    Without seeing what the problem was I can't comment, except to say that I have had a lot of positive feedback from the folks here. Of course my photography is very "safe" so that may be the reason. If you are pushing the envelope then you can expect to be pushed back, just the nature of people.
    I enjoy your posts but don't necessarily like every single one, so as Greg said, don't worry about it and keep putting them up.

  8. #8

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    Stone,

    You are not wrong. But, when you say anything in any place, especially on Internet, you invite opinions. A photograph is an expression of the photographer but an impression belongs to the viewer. Two of them are often not in sync no matter how carefully you frame the image. I don't know which image of you are talking about or who you are referring to as respected female member. But it all boils down to this. If you don't want anyone with harsh and different opinion to comment, don't post your images. Not because you are wrong, but because you have no control over what that person or anyone else might say about your images or even you.

    Yes, it bothers me deeply when someone comments so harshly and especially when those comments basically amounts to personal attacks. The Internet has brought all of us an ability to say what we want, freely, and not assume any personal responsibilities.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  9. #9
    Hatchetman's Avatar
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    You gotta have thick skin if you put your photos up for public comment.

  10. #10
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    There's a poll now.... didn't realize this posted before the poll posted... haha let me read and respond to the posts ... choose the limit of what is ok, I know I lumped stuff together, but do your best to choose what you think is the "worst" thing that can be here.

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