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  1. #11
    Alan W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rose View Post
    I agree with you. To bad these people would not post in the critique gallery so we could offer some advice.
    Maybe you could P.M. the offenders,and tell them how they should be doing it!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    I agree. The photography should be about the pictures, and to present them in an effective manner is important. The photography should never be about the printing technique, or some other arbitrary technical aspect of the work. It should be always about the content.
    I agree with this too, but would like to make a comment from the perspective of a beginning, novice printer. It is easy to get caught up in techniques and too focused on them when you are learning. And not just techniques or technical aspects, but also just too caught up in particular aspects of what you are trying to accomplish.

    Recently I made a print and my attention was on the tones in the sky... I burned too long and ended up with a darker sky on my print than I wanted, with that obvious "burned in" look. But another person pointed out that this same burning in increased the grain in the sky, and the coarse texture by contrast enhanced the smoother finer look of the water and foreground below it. He was right, and I hadn't seen it because I was too focused on the tone. I was blind to something that was quite obvious in the print right in my own hand. It makes me wonder what else I'm blind to!

    As for lith printing, I am very curious about lith redevelopment because I've seen some beautiful results, including some amazing work by Tim Rudman at his website. The main thing that is holding me back from trying it is that I still have a lot to learn about regular printing first. I have in my imagination a particular kind of print that might look extraordinary with lith redevelopment, but it is more like an unachievable ideal or goal to strive for eventually....

    I like trying new and different things, so I doubt I will wait to become a master printer before trying lith. There are not enough years left in my life to wait for perfection before experimenting!

    -Ned
    Last edited by NedL; 02-08-2013 at 02:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #13
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NedL View Post
    I agree with this too, but would like to make a comment from the perspective of a beginning, novice printer. It is easy to get caught up in techniques and too focused on them when you are learning. And not just techniques or technical aspects, but also just too caught up in particular aspects of what you are trying to accomplish.

    Recently I made a print and my attention was on the tones in the sky... I burned too long and ended up with a darker sky on my print than I wanted, with that obvious "burned in" look. But another person pointed out that this same burning in increased the grain in the sky, and the coarse texture by contrast enhanced the smoother finer look of the water and foreground below it. He was right, and I hadn't seen it because I was too focused on the tone. I was blind to something that was quite obvious in the print right in my own hand. It makes me wonder what else I'm blind to!

    As for lith printing, I am very curious about lith redevelopment because I've seen some beautiful results, including some amazing work by Tim Rudman at his website. The main thing that is holding me back from trying it is that I still have a lot to learn about regular printing first. I have in my imagination a particular kind of print that might look extraordinary with lith redevelopment, but it is more like an unachievable ideal or goal to strive for eventually....

    I like trying new and different things, so I doubt I will wait to become a master printer before trying lith. There are not enough years left in my life to wait for perfection before experimenting!

    -Ned
    I'm not saying that technique is not important - as long as the efforts are to promote what you want do bring forward with your picture. If you're experimenting with a particular picture, are you not doing so to improve how you present it? If yes, you are serving the content by trying to improve the technique and appearance of the image, and that is, in my book, what we should concern ourselves with.

    What I don't think is a good idea, is to make a series of pictures about a certain technique, but to take a group of negatives that have pictures that tell a good story together, and then try to present them as well as we possibly can.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #14
    NedL's Avatar
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    That is a nice way to think about things. Thank you!

  5. #15
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    Still trying to master normal prints...been doing it for 40 years...will get it soon.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Rose View Post
    Just a pet peeve of mine and I gotta let it out. I have spent time with Tim Rudman and the lith prints he produces are outstanding. Most if not all of the images he lith's would also make excellent non-lith'd prints. However I see so many images in the APUG gallery that are either generally crappy compositions, pedestrian subject matter, and/or poorly exposed but magically once they have been lith'd somehow they become "art". To me 90% of what I have seen in the galleries that has been lith'd is the analog of an "Instragram" image. Some how the special effect is suppose to transform these images into something outstanding.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a well executed lith print. I also understand it may take some time before someone masters this technique. However I feel some are using it as a crutch and deluding themselves that they are creating something wonderful when in fact it's just plain boring. Sorry, like I said it's just a pet peeve. My opinion I am sure will not be popular.
    hi eric

    isn't everything boring to a certain extant ... ?
    ... unless it isn't ...
    silver magnets, trickle tanks sold
    artwork often times sold for charity
    PM me for details

  7. #17
    sbattert's Avatar
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    However I see so many images in the APUG gallery that are either generally crappy compositions, pedestrian subject matter, and/or poorly exposed but magically once they have been lith'd somehow they become "art"
    This is an open forum for learning, isn't it? Only fifteen photos were shared in the apug gallery today. There are only two willing to be critiqued. I think it's safe to say that many people are intimidated by the small percentage of incredibly talented and equally intimidated by the large percentage of ranting egos. Apug should promote experimentation and learning of analog processes and those talented few should teach by example. Most of this is subjective. Also, what is perceived as ordinary today may evolve into something extraordinary. Wasn't there harsh opposition to impressionist paintings at first?

  8. #18
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Rant time: Artistic expession vs lith prints

    Quote Originally Posted by sbattert View Post
    This is an open forum for learning, isn't it? Only fifteen photos were shared in the apug gallery today. There are only two willing to be critiqued. I think it's safe to say that many people are intimidated by the small percentage of incredibly talented and equally intimidated by the large percentage of ranting egos. Apug should promote experimentation and learning of analog processes and those talented few should teach by example. Most of this is subjective. Also, what is perceived as ordinary today may evolve into something extraordinary. Wasn't there harsh opposition to impressionist paintings at first?
    Well spoken.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  9. #19
    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    Physician heal thyself.

    I am not sure why the OP thinks he is so above it all.

  10. #20
    MattKing's Avatar
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    A lith print can look interesting even if the underlying scene isn't particularly interesting.

    A web image of a lith print - not so much.

    In my time, I've seen a few originals of what are acknowledged to be great works of (visual) art.

    None of them are anywhere near as powerful or effective when viewed on a computer screen.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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