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  1. #1
    Juraj Kovacik's Avatar
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    It is bromoil a blind stream of todays photography?

    It is bromoil a blind stream of todays photography or it is a logical step after the fall of the modernism believe in brain and after horror of emptiness of the postmodern smirks? I don’t know. I was taught and grown in belief in modernism. My teacher is a conceptual artist and my more admired photographer, Jozef Sudek, he is one of them who define modern photography. And it is not so hard start to feel that going on the bromoil way, the way I stepped out impulsively few months ago, is a betray.

    The biggest fear of every true modernist is to be accused of producing kitsch. I strongly believe, and there is less then a few I can do with it, that you can do in art what you want or need or have to, unless the producing a kitsch. Of course, the definition of what is kitsch can be crucial. But we can try to hold things simple and say, that kitsch is equivalent of fake. To make up in Photoshop a dramatic landscape from a moody shoot is a fake. Maybe no everybody would agree with the next, but in my opinion the same for make up in darkroom a perfect picture from a moody shoot, that is a fake too.

    It is obvious that to say that a bromoil is kitsch looks to be in line with previous steps. There is only one exception, only one way how to avoid this fear and this accusation. At first one have to produce the best silver print he can. He has to take picture of something he really loves, he is really interesting in, he is living with for days and days, something he knows and understand and he has to wait for the right time and the right light. The in the darkroom or on the computer he has to produce the print he can put on the wall, the print he can consider as a part of his portfolio, his work. It must be so good print that he has to hesitate to bleach it; he has to take it as a sacrifice. And after that he may to try to push picture father by inking it as a bromoil.

    Sorry to be too long but I cant say it shorter. Every reaction, opinion, comments, every impulse will be welcome.

  2. #2

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    Jurak

    Your post is a little hard to follow but I think I get what you are saying. To me a good picture is a good picture that conveys a message to me, regardless of how it was made. I agree that nobody wants to produce kitch whether it be modern or not, but I disagree with your slant that a 'perfect picture' cant be made in the darkroom. Is that not postvisualization?

    Phill
    It is not tradition that secures the survival of our craft, its the craft that secures the survival of our traditions.

  3. #3
    Ole
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    The very successful Norwegian painter Odd Nerdrum defines himself as a kitsch painter. I believe this was originally to avoid others accusing him of the same, but he does have a point. Most kitsch paintings show a technical mastery which is sadly lacking in much of the works of "modernists", and is probably a better "role model" for someone who builds on the works of Rembrandt and Caravaggio.

    What I'm trying to say, I think, is that "kitsch" is not bad in itself. It also happens to be very saleable...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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    ann
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    i too find this thread hard to follow.

    What i do know is that i am going to be doing some bromoils this year, just for fun and as an additional learning experiences. Is this "kitsch", don't know, and really don't care , it is just my plan.

    my .02 cents worth.

  5. #5
    Juraj Kovacik's Avatar
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    hups, I hope my pictures are more understandable then my writing...

    Phill, about postvisualization - if you know that articles from UK B&W about darkroom tips and trics, here burn 1/3 stop and here dodge 1/2 stop etc etc - so that is something I never ever done in dark. But is my opinion only, of course.

  6. #6
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juraj Kovacik
    ... if you know that articles from UK B&W about darkroom tips and trics, here burn 1/3 stop and here dodge 1/2 stop etc etc - so that is something I never ever done in dark. But is my opinion only, of course.
    That is something I almost always do in the darkroom - and more often 2 stops than 1/2. That I happen to disagree with how the "master printers" in UK B&W do it is just a matter of taste - I can think of one single case where I would have done similar adjustments.

    That I often manipulate heavily in the darkroom doesn't make my pictures any more or less "fake", and certainly not kitsch. The simple act of ignoring all colour from a scene is the start that gives me "license" to do whatever I want to get the picture I want from a scene.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  7. #7
    Les McLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juraj Kovacik
    hups, I hope my pictures are more understandable then my writing...

    Phill, about postvisualization - if you know that articles from UK B&W about darkroom tips and trics, here burn 1/3 stop and here dodge 1/2 stop etc etc - so that is something I never ever done in dark. But is my opinion only, of course.
    Surely the inking process in bromoil can produce similar results to burning and dodging in the darkroom. I've attended workshops in the UK given by some excellent bromoil makers and they demonstrate how to lay on more ink to darken and removal of ink in various ways to brighten the highlight and increase contrast. Are you saying that to do this in bromoil is also fake and if so what is not fake?
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

  8. #8
    Juraj Kovacik's Avatar
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    That's the point, Les. Inking bromoil is the same as manipulate the picture in photoshop. Only you are using brush, not computer. I don't say there is something wrong about it, I wanted only share some doubts about my personal feelings from my work. Starting with bromoil I have crossed some borders I was taught and believe it as a measure what is photography as an art medium about. And I'm not sure and maybe this is the big step in the wrong direction. I have to rethink things and talking about them is a way.

  9. #9
    BradS's Avatar
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    Simple respnse:
    with art, it is a matter of taste.

    More considered response:
    If anything, the modernists and post modernists have taught us that artistic expression is not defined by the medium. Just as great works of poetry have been written in every language known to mankind, great works in the visual arts have been expressed in every meduim imaginiable -- from classical oil on canvas to welded scrap automotive parts. Artistic expression cannot be confined to, and is not defined by the medium of expression. I don't think that we can discount a work of art simply because the artist has chosen to express his vision in a different language/medium than ours.

  10. #10
    Les McLean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaussianNoise
    Simple respnse:
    with art, it is a matter of taste.

    More considered response:
    If anything, the modernists and post modernists have taught us that artistic expression is not defined by the medium. Just as great works of poetry have been written in every language known to mankind, great works in the visual arts have been expressed in every meduim imaginiable -- from classical oil on canvas to welded scrap automotive parts. Artistic expression cannot be confined to, and is not defined by the medium of expression. I don't think that we can discount a work of art simply because the artist has chosen to express his vision in a different language/medium than ours.
    How true. I think you have summed up the whole debate. Too many people place more credance on the process than the image.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

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