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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    I'm saying that the suggestions for "traditional work around" are honestly kind of dumb
    I thought that was your idea...?

    But anyway, I don't think there should be a gallery. I'd prefer it if people just sent me their prints. Particularly, Daniel Lin, coigach and Thomas Bertilsson. Thanks!
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  2. #32
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    There's a lot to reply to...

    For those that think its easy to find ilfochrome paper and chemistry, tell me where, I've been trying to print a Kodachrome slide I have since last year and have only found one person who has the paper but no chemistry. So I call BS on that.

    I also want to reiterate that I still don't know where I can even get an optical print from a lab, I know there are probably a few places in NY but I don't sell a lot of prints and its never mattered to anyone except you guys, and since no one has asked to buy a print from me, I've not looked. There's only one photo lab around here (I actually live in CT) and they don't print optically.

    All the stuff you guys suggest costs a lot of money, it's truly a stupid thing to go and make a print and waste more film to make a copy by photographing the print with B&W film (on 35mm when the image is 120 so you're also losing tons of detail) and then process and scan that all just to post it in my gallery, that's really quite a waste if time and money and frankly I can't see why anyone would bother doing that just for an APUG gallery. I'm already scanning it, so I've introduced non-traditional process in the mix, what the hell's the difference after that.

    I'm not saying I'm mad about the policies, I got over that a while ago, I'm saying that the suggestions for "traditional work around" a are honestly kind of dumb, and the suggestion that its EASY to traditionally print slides is a joke. If its do easy why don't I send you my slides and you can make lots of prints for me

    I like you all, and thanks for the thorough amount of response, but you're all nuts

    For those that simply answered my initial question, I thank you. And those that complimented my photo as it stands with no conversion, I thank you, and I agree I like the color, it's just so far from the original tone, that's why I felt B&W might be better.

    For those that suggested wild ideas, I just ask you to realize its not not fair to me because I have no access, I guess that's why I get set off buy these suggestions, because I have no one who I can even approach to do this for me and certainly no way to do it myself. Yes I post A LOT because I don't have a single film person in my life, NO ONE shoots film that I know, even the pro's I know don't shoot any film and don't have a clue, and it makes me feel lonely, so I come here to talk about it. I would certainly post less if there were real film interactions in my daily life.

    I just woke up mind you so I'm a little grumpy, I haven't had coffee and my car broke last night, have to work on that and I have $60 in my bank account right now... Not in a great mood so sorry if I sound like a jerk, I'm not I swear.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    I didn't say it was EASY, just possible. B&H sells the chemistry. And I didn't say it was cheap either. Just calling BS on the "impossible"/"NOBODY does it". If you REALLY want to print from transparencies, contact Stephen Frizza (he's a member here on APUG and owns a photo lab in Australia. IIRC he bought a huge stock of Ilfochrome paper and chemistry so he could continue to support the process).

    Making internegs has been around since forever, and it used to be a very popular way to make prints from slides. So if you don't want to make direct prints from your transparencies, and you don't want to make inkjet prints, then it's not a big deal to fire up your preferred camera that can handle close-focusing, pop the tranny on a light box, and copy away using a nice copy film, (ideally a duplicating film, worst case scenario, Portra 160).

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    it's truly a stupid thing to go and make a print and waste more film to make a copy by photographing the print with B&W film (on 35mm when the image is 120 so you're also losing tons of detail) and then process and scan that all just to post it in my gallery, that's really quite a waste if time and money and frankly I can't see why anyone would bother doing that just for an APUG gallery. I'm already scanning it, so I've introduced non-traditional process in the mix, what the hell's the difference after that.

    I've got to admit that I, too, find the idea that copying the slide to B&W film just to scan it is OK, but scanning the slide directly isn't, strange. To be consistent, I would think all scans would be banned.

  4. #34
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    APUG Ethics of B&W conversion of color image

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I didn't say it was EASY, just possible. B&H sells the chemistry. And I didn't say it was cheap either. Just calling BS on the "impossible"/"NOBODY does it". If you REALLY want to print from transparencies, contact Stephen Frizza (he's a member here on APUG and owns a photo lab in Australia. IIRC he bought a huge stock of Ilfochrome paper and chemistry so he could continue to support the process).
    Thanks, now I've had my coffee...

    You're right it is possible I guess, I didn't know he had the paper/chems, I'm aware of him from one of the Kodachrome threads. That's actually really helpful. Obviously I don't have the money now but I will certainly contact him (though shipping from Australia is kind of harsh...).

    I didn't know about B&H having the chems.

    I know they can't ship to Canada though which is where my paper guy is... I may end up "Smuggling" them up to him haha, I'll make a big trip of it, visit GEH and Ron and Fred and then head further north . What an adventure!

    Sorry I was kind of harsh with you. I literally didn't know anyone who had both paper and chemistry. Thanks for the info, truly.

    And sorry for being a jerk, I feel bad now that I've had my coffee, now it's time to work on the car...




    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  5. #35
    MattKing's Avatar
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    You won't have to smuggle the chemicals to get them to Canada.

    Canada isn't the problem - it is the shipping restrictions on the bleach.

    The carriers won't handle them at an economic cost.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof_Pixel View Post
    I've got to admit that I, too, find the idea that copying the slide to B&W film just to scan it is OK, but scanning the slide directly isn't, strange. To be consistent, I would think all scans would be banned.
    I guess we have to put up with one step of scanning or else it's not possible to share here. This thread is a little hot and maybe I should keep my toes out of it, but I think there's one more thing. Desaturated and B/W "converted" images have a different look to them, even when the original photograph is on film. I'm not saying they can't be nice, but they aren't the same.

    I suppose a b/w internegative or making a copy on b/w film might not be the same either...and in some important way maybe that is actually the point: the original light landed on color slide film. And that, surely, is what APUG is about.

  7. #37
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Thanks, now I've had my coffee...

    And sorry for being a jerk, I feel bad now that I've had my coffee, now it's time to work on the car...
    It's an analog only car, right? Otherwise it can't be discussed here.
    K.S. Klain

  8. #38
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    I am reassured by the APUG policy to scans of photographs. If it were not for scanners connected to display monitors via the internet sharing pictures would involve mailing work across the world by international post. Some people may remember a time when that was exactly what happened. And it was a cumbersome and expensive process.

    The concept that is really important to me personally is that the picture on my monitor looks like the thing that was scanned. What I hate is to be deceived into looking at an electronic file that is a computer re-calculation of a direct scan. Spare me the negatives flipped electronically into positives. Show me the negatives. Negatives are familiar friends. I've met thousands of them. Spare me colour flipped electronically into black and white. Spare me black and white photographs "toned" in Photoshop.

    If I really REALLY want to see negatives as positives, colour as black and white, or fake sepia tone I already know how to Photoshop the picture files that come to me from APUG via the internet. I can cook them into anything I like...however ghastly.
    Photography, the word itself, invented and defined by its author Sir John.F.W.Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society, Somerset House, London. Quote "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..". unquote.

  9. #39
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    hi stone

    you can probably print it optically as a black and white image
    in a single step using ilford direct positive paper.
    i haven't used it yet, a lot of people make in camera prints with ...
    and i am guessing it can be enlarged on.

    otherwise you can ask a lab to make a black and white print ( as a negative )
    and you can go to the hobby store and get sun print paper, and a sheet of glass, and some wax
    you heat up the print on the stove, rub wax on it, wipe up the excess
    then put it on the sun paper, and in the sun for a long while ...
    it will be blue, just like the original image ( sun prints are blue )
    if you want to get rid of the blue .. get some super washing soda at the grocery store
    and put some in a pan big enough to fit the negative ...
    then soak the print
    get some fresh water to rinse it ..

    its pretty easy, and almost effortless and you don't need a darkroom or fancy chemicals..

    have fun !
    john
    That's an idea, but it isn't panchromatic. You will have color/tonal distortions and possibly a rather grainy look where the red areas just don't print (I've seen this using conventional black and white paper to print color negs.)

    If you can get hold of some Panalure paper (I have some in my freezer, and no it's not for sale) you could probably make a negative image print of it, then contact print that paper negative onto any black and white paper you chose. I may have to try that with some of my slides - the thought hadn't occcurred to me before!

    I wish SOMEONE would come out with a good panchromatic black and white paper for printing color negs in black and white again, now that Panalure is gone. Hey, Simon of Ilford, you listening?

  10. #40
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I wish SOMEONE would come out with a good panchromatic black and white paper for printing color negs in black and white again, now that Panalure is gone. Hey, Simon of Ilford, you listening?
    I agree. Especially now that color chemistry/paper is quickly disappearing on us. I have boxes of slides that I would absolutely love to print BW.
    K.S. Klain

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