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  1. #51
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    APUG Ethics of B&W conversion of color image

    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    There really is nothing wrong with using digital methods to do anything that is proposed. One just needs to exclude the results from APUG galleries.

    There are lots of other things that Stone can post in the galleries. And Stone certainly doesn't seem to lack opportunities for participation here , so I'm not too worried.

    The APUG galleries are interesting, informative and valuable, but APUG isn't really set up primarily as a gallery resource. Flickr and the like are better for that.
    haha yes I certainly post enough.

    Honestly I'm still at the"people will copy my images" stage, and APUG feels much safer than Flickr, the fact that only members can see my galley images makes me feel really good.

    DPUG Seems to have an open gallery, so I've only posted maybe 5 images there.

    I like it here. It's just hard because I don't have a full setup like many of you successful guys, I've never taken a film class, the only "darkroom" I've ever even been in was the Dwayne's photo Kodachrome machine room.

    I've been shooting for 18 years but always used a lab, after getting back from my Kodachrome Project trip, I decided to learn the developing side, I've only been developing for a year. I've learned a tremendous amount and have shot more film this year than the rest of my life prior. Most of that was because of APUG. That said the "next step" of printing is many YEARS away as I won't have a home to practice and learn in a darkroom setup for a few years at least. In the mean time I would like to perfect my understanding of the film side, developing, shooting better images, but I can't do that if I can't post them and understand what others like vs what I like.

    I'm babbling again...

    Thanks, this case is closed as I'll be posting the blue version. However I think it needs to be re-scanned, someone pointed out that there's a line across it which doesn't seem to be in the negative, so something with the scan was off, but we can't talk about that here *facepalm*

    Thanks guys, I'm shooting less color anyway as I've basically given up on tracking down the full list of E6 chemistry to make it from scratch, so this shouldn't be an issue much longer, I'm sticking to Polaroids for that, and very little Velvia and NO C-41 (so trade me!! I have a bunch to trade). It's just too expensive and frustrating to figure out the entire formula and obviously can't print anything "traditionally" without great cost.

    I digress... I'll do my best to follow the rules I am able to.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #52
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    APUG Ethics of B&W conversion of color image

    Quote Originally Posted by ic-racer View Post
    There is no ethical issue if you indicate to the viewer what you are doing. For example "Digitally Altered Scan of Kodachrome 35mm Slide." APUG is not the site for presentation of "Digitally Altered" images.

    However, If you want to contact print the slides onto Wet Plate and scan those B&W images to post here, that is great.
    That's a lost argument, as soon as you scan something it is digitally altered, either by the automated exposure of the scanner or the manual adjustments made before the scan to get it to look "right" even from a print the colors and tones won't match perfectly, just scanning causes them to be digitally altered. So to me it's a silly argument, but as I said I'll do my best to follow the rules as closely as I'm able, that's why I asked this one.

    Honestly I've already seen images on APUG where the poster said "color image converted to B&W in photoshop "hanging" in their gallery, so others are already doing it :-p

    But I didn't want to do that if it wasn't ok.

    And now I won't


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  3. #53

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    Do we really need to wave at a police man and honk at him before going over a speed limit?
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  4. #54
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    Do we really need to wave at a police man and honk at him before going over a speed limit?
    You mean I shouldn't have even asked and just done it? I feel like I'd rather try and stay within the lines or at least know the driving rules before I break them, but that's just me.

  5. #55

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    Is there a forum equivalent to cabin fever?
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  6. #56

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    I asked a similar question some time back when I first joined APUG and was directed to DPUG. I had a look there but found that it did not suit me at all. It is totally digital, I was using film and scanning the negs. The only work I do on the prints is to adjust density and contrast, exactly what I would do with wet prints.
    I felt more comfortable here and I am sure that could apply to many people.
    P.S. I do have a darkroom now, I am just waiting for the weather to warm up before I can use it.

  7. #57

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    stone

    you don't need a full darkroom set up to print, you don't need a darkroom at all, you just need a dark .. room.
    if you have already gotten to the developed film stage, you just need a negative large enough
    to contact print and all you need is a light bulb and 3 trays of fluid ... nothing fancy is needed.
    sure there are people with $100K darkrooms, but most people have what they need to get by.

    if you ever make it up north and want to make a print let me know ... its pretty easy
    and you won't need to convert your slides.
    Last edited by jnanian; 03-01-2013 at 11:29 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    You mean I shouldn't have even asked and just done it?

    Of course not. But "can I convert" question is already covered in no uncertain terms in a statement that comes up when you try to upload an image. It really didn't need to be asked. You also asked how can it be done in more acceptable ways. A lot of people tried to help you but you turned them down - all of them.

    In the end, all you accomplished was to call attention to yourself. Knowing how people around here feel about anything even slightly digital, I'm not sure if that's a desirable thing.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  9. #59

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    Ultimately, it is what it is. Some feel that such...adherence...is what preserves the intangible appeal of the site, others disagree, but the only part of that that matters is that the people making the rules have made it as such. Clearly, it's felt that these rules help take APUG from "the best option" to "a great option", regardless of what alternatives may be out there.

    As far as alternative processes, it's important to keep in mind that there are two very different rationales at play here: that of a reasonable alternative in the real world that is on par (economically, conveniently, etc.) with digital conversion, and that of an approach that complies to an arbitrary guideline (please don't read a negative connotation into that). In this case, unfortunately, the two appear to be somewhat mutually exclusive.

    Is the current situation perfect and without flaw? No, but all things considered, I think the staff does a great job handling the situation as it were. For me personally, I use APUG to post, communicate, and learn via text. It's a bit of an ironic condition, considering the subject matter, but when I signed up, I read the guidelines, and in checking the box, agreed to abide by them. For my own approach, the guidelines for posting images here conflict with what I feel is the best presentation for my photos, so I made the decision as I signed up that having a gallery here simply wasn't going to happen, and I've moved past that.

    Would I absolutely love to have a gallery here? Sure. Would I become a subscriber to do it? Possibly...probably. Would I do all this just to show raw scans that have not gone through my own workflow, which I don't feel are representative of what I'm doing? Absolutely not. So in this case, I'm grateful for what I have in participating on the forum, and understand that that's the extent of my participation. If, in the future, APUG became a pay-to-post site, or a pay-to-view forum, I'd revisit the question...though with the same restrictions placed on galleries, I'd likely not pay.

    I understand the rationale behind the rule, but it simply conflicts with my own philosophy on the subject. Luckily that's not a deal-breaker for this aspect of the site.

  10. #60
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    APUG Ethics of B&W conversion of color image

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold View Post
    Ultimately, it is what it is. Some feel that such...adherence...is what preserves the intangible appeal of the site, others disagree, but the only part of that that matters is that the people making the rules have made it as such. Clearly, it's felt that these rules help take APUG from "the best option" to "a great option", regardless of what alternatives may be out there.

    As far as alternative processes, it's important to keep in mind that there are two very different rationales at play here: that of a reasonable alternative in the real world that is on par (economically, conveniently, etc.) with digital conversion, and that of an approach that complies to an arbitrary guideline (please don't read a negative connotation into that). In this case, unfortunately, the two appear to be somewhat mutually exclusive.

    Is the current situation perfect and without flaw? No, but all things considered, I think the staff does a great job handling the situation as it were. For me personally, I use APUG to post, communicate, and learn via text. It's a bit of an ironic condition, considering the subject matter, but when I signed up, I read the guidelines, and in checking the box, agreed to abide by them. For my own approach, the guidelines for posting images here conflict with what I feel is the best presentation for my photos, so I made the decision as I signed up that having a gallery here simply wasn't going to happen, and I've moved past that.

    Would I absolutely love to have a gallery here? Sure. Would I become a subscriber to do it? Possibly...probably. Would I do all this just to show raw scans that have not gone through my own workflow, which I don't feel are representative of what I'm doing? Absolutely not. So in this case, I'm grateful for what I have in participating on the forum, and understand that that's the extent of my participation. If, in the future, APUG became a pay-to-post site, or a pay-to-view forum, I'd revisit the question...though with the same restrictions placed on galleries, I'd likely not pay.

    I understand the rationale behind the rule, but it simply conflicts with my own philosophy on the subject. Luckily that's not a deal-breaker for this aspect of the site.
    I really like your last 3 paragraphs, very good.

    I've accepted what it is now.

    To the other poster who said I was calling attention to myself, well I was simply clarifying, I don't think it wrong to ask a question you are unsure of.

    There's a photo right now in the image gallery's 1st page that clearly says by the poster that he dodged and burned digitally because he doesn't have a darkroom and everyone is praising his photo, so it's a bit confusing for me to understand what others "say" about the rules and who actually follows them.

    And John, (jnononon or whatever his name is haha) there's more to my home situation than I care to discuss on APUG but I have NOWHERE to set up even a temporary darkroom. I'm lucky if I'm allowed to use the sink to process half the time. I've even lost a roll because I was mid develop and was DEMANDED to move, it's not great here for film. I don't know where you live, PM me.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller



 

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