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  1. #61
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Agree, American Idol is not a good example. That's a pop star competition, which has relatively little to do with singing in the end. Intonation, for example, is lousy in virtually every case.
    Completely agree.

    But the argument of comparing music with photography seems wrong to me. Photography is both an art and a craft. Greatly artistically people may or may not be great craftsmen and people with great craft and technique may not be overly artistic. Both can, and are, learned talents to some extent as well as inborn gifts.

    I think both types of people can flourish in photography.

    I've always called this the engineering mind vs the artistic mind when it pertains to photography. Some people have engineering minds, love equipment and technique, whether capture or darkroom, and excel at learning photographic theory.

    The artistic mind really doesn't care that much about equipment or darkroom chemistry but love the process of taking photographs, and only care to learn enough to duplicate what their brain envisioned the picture to look like.

    And of courses you have people that are a blend of these two types.

    We're not all going to be great or rich and famous, but we can all still make good photographs and have fun doing it.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  2. #62
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post

    We're not all going to be great or rich and famous, but we can all still make good photographs and have fun doing it.
    That would be a good signature line.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    Yes, but isn't that because pop stars are judged for 'the whole package'? If it was a straight singing competition, the final decision would be much more difficult. We judge everyone in the performing arts today, firstly, on their personality, like dates - because we might have to get used to seeing them a lot! It's not quite like that in photography.
    Of course they are judged that way, and many of them are human dog whistles and/or screech owls.

    The point I was trying to make is that in any endeavor there are many who are called and few who are chosen. Not everyone gets to sing at the Met; someone has to sing on the cruise ship.
    Parker Smith Photography, Inc.
    Atlanta, GA

    Commercial & Fine Art Photography
    Portrait Photography

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerSmithPhoto View Post
    Not everyone gets to sing at the Met; someone has to sing on the cruise ship.
    Does this mean there are people who reluctantly sing on cruise ships?

    many of them are human dog whistles
    and
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    NT: No argument there. I'm certainly not suggesting people should simply give up things they aren't great at. Rather that they should be realistic about what they are trying to achieve or accomplish.
    I'd agree with all that, and unfortunately I didn't have time to be clearer when I wrote my previous post.

    His goals appear substantially more serious than someone just wanting to enjoy an artistic pastime to the best of his ability.
    In that light I think I get where you're going, and I'd agree---a lot of people (in photography and music and probably every other art) seem to get bogged down in an overthought, external preconception of What Is Required To Be An Artist, rather than just getting out and doing whatever it is they do. I tend to think that more people perpetrating art that works *for* *them* is a good thing, and asking "how do I find my subject?" seems like a reasonable question to ask en route to that goal.

    You know, I think there's a fairly common perception---and I'm not sure if the OP is having this problem or if I'm just going off-topic a bit---that there are "right" and "wrong" choices of photographic subject, that some subjects aren't photographic enough, or pretty enough (or ugly enough), don't (or do) convey an unambiguous Message, and so on. Somewhere out there, there are impassioned photographers of kittens and sunsets, and damn it, they're entitled to find their passion and play it as it lays!

    As far as music goes, I still don't think it is much different. Perhaps it is because my background is in orchestral/"classical" music. Anyway that's a discussion for a different thread.
    Yeah, I'm partly speaking from the punk/no-wave "anyone can do this" soapbox, and I tend to agree with those who feel that the Western classical tradition has become more restrictive than most of its strongest voices would ever have intended. Photography has less of that problem, IMHO, because of the widespread acceptance of casual vernacular photography, but basically I see a similar dynamic in both worlds.

    I've told more than one person "The only people who think they can't play the harmonica are sober", which I think is a good principle to live by in all versions of art.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerSmithPhoto View Post
    Of course they are judged that way, and many of them are human dog whistles and/or screech owls.
    I bet you really like Ute Lemper. :-)

    The point I was trying to make is that in any endeavor there are many who are called and few who are chosen. Not everyone gets to sing at the Met; someone has to sing on the cruise ship.
    That's probably not a bad gig. The ones out to whom my heart goes are the unfortunates who have to sing in commercials and sound wildly, orgiastically excited by a brand of dish soap. I'm not sure what the photographic equivalent would be---a lifetime of product shots, I suppose?

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  7. #67
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    I went to a conference on photographic education this past weekend and one of the discussions was about getting students to be creative, especially those that are not art students. They played a portion of this video and I plan on showing my students who feel overwhelmed with the task of being creative. Most of it is about computing and invention, but the beginning applies to any creative pursuit.

    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerSmithPhoto View Post
    Batwiser, put "On Being A Photographer" at the top of your reading list!
    My reading list is large and always growing, but On Being a Photographer has been there for some time. Pretty expensive compared to similar small books, but it's in the post now. Unfortunately, I don't think they understand the word 'photography' in my library. What can I say, I live in a one horse town. And, as someone else alluded to, that was the stimulus for a cynical project at one point. The camera can be a weapon, and in that case, it felt like the barrel was in my mouth.

    I'll read the book and actually start concentrating on subject matter that moves me. As unpopular as that ideal is in contemporary work, it's simply the only way I can make effective pictures. The naive art I made earlier on in the landscape came from a good, honest place, if a bit superficial. Maybe I'm ready to go back, but perhaps to new places, with a fresh perspective and visual vocabulary. Context of course is very important to me, but shouldn't have to become a stifling intellectual conceit.

    I've finally booked my tickets to London to see Ansel. I'll also be seeing 'Island Stories: Fifty Years of Photography in Britain' at the V&A, for anyone who isn't aware of the exhibition, which starts this month. http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/article...hy-since-1945/
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  9. #69
    Patrick Robert James's Avatar
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    I thought I wrote a response to your problem, but I guess I deleted it before I posted, as I often do. At any rate, I can't say it any better than Arno, who is a fantastically intelligent man and a heck of a nice guy-

    http://www.petapixel.com/2013/03/13/...n-photography/

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