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  1. #231
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    So history is important both in art and in the world. Repeating history in the art world is a little more acceptable (like when someone told me my model work reminded them if Helmut Newton and I had to look up to see who that was because I was ignorant, only to discover I was flattered by the compliment) but without knowing I had repeated a style, (but only vaguely in my opinion) however seeing the work gave me new ideas...
    There's a visual vocabulary that we develop, much the way we learn our native language, organically and unconsciously. You don't develop your verbal vocabulary in a vacuum - you get it from the people around you when you're growing up, even though you're completely unaware of it. Then you reach a curiosity point and if you push yourself past it, you start trying to find new words to expand your vocabulary. The same thing happens with images. You're surrounded by them 24/7/365, and when you see something that resonates with you, that 'punctum' moment that Barthes postulated is in every image, it sticks in your psyche and becomes a part of your visual vocabulary.

    Stone- I suspect that you saw, earlier on in your life somewhere Helmut Newton images that resonated with you. You may have been completely unaware of them as Helmut Newtons - I think most people have seen some of his work at some point without knowing it, as he was a highly successful fashion/advertising photographer in addition to his nude work. He did a lot of work for Vogue, Harpers Bazaar and Playboy, so if you saw any of those magazines, particularly back issues from the 50s to the 80s, you saw his work. Something about it resonated with you and you used it, unconsciously, as a jumping-off point when trying to formulate your own visual vocabulary.

  2. #232

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    A little while ago I found this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zwk3YFknyNA

    through here

    http://erickimphotography.com/blog/page/2/

    Quite interesting I think

    Best regards
    Send from my Electronic Data Management Device using TWOFingerTexting

    Technology distinquishable from magic is insufficiently developed

    Søren Nielsen
    Denmark

  3. #233
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Loss of fine art photography tradition

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    There's a visual vocabulary that we develop, much the way we learn our native language, organically and unconsciously. You don't develop your verbal vocabulary in a vacuum - you get it from the people around you when you're growing up, even though you're completely unaware of it. Then you reach a curiosity point and if you push yourself past it, you start trying to find new words to expand your vocabulary. The same thing happens with images. You're surrounded by them 24/7/365, and when you see something that resonates with you, that 'punctum' moment that Barthes postulated is in every image, it sticks in your psyche and becomes a part of your visual vocabulary.

    Stone- I suspect that you saw, earlier on in your life somewhere Helmut Newton images that resonated with you. You may have been completely unaware of them as Helmut Newtons - I think most people have seen some of his work at some point without knowing it, as he was a highly successful fashion/advertising photographer in addition to his nude work. He did a lot of work for Vogue, Harpers Bazaar and Playboy, so if you saw any of those magazines, particularly back issues from the 50s to the 80s, you saw his work. Something about it resonated with you and you used it, unconsciously, as a jumping-off point when trying to formulate your own visual vocabulary.
    Perhaps...

    I know I've seen duffy's work


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #234
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    It's one of those things where you pick up these visual language elements without even realizing that you're doing it, just through sub-conscious exposure to them. Did you realize when you were five years old that you had a thousand-word vocabulary? I seriously doubt it. And when you were ten, did you realize you knew 3000 words? No- you just knew the words, without being aware that you knew those words, how many you knew, or why you knew the ones you did. Looking back from adulthood, you can spot moments where your vocabulary took a turn in a direction because you were exposed to an idea or experience (reading Shakespeare, studying chemistry, taking Spanish or French, learning photography) that developed an interest for you in some subject area. The same thing happens with visual imagery.

  5. #235
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeren View Post
    A little while ago I found this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zwk3YFknyNA

    through here

    http://erickimphotography.com/blog/page/2/

    Quite interesting I think

    Best regards
    Soeren, thanks for that link, which is a very educational.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  6. #236

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    Quote Originally Posted by horacekenneth View Post
    My point is simply that tradition is important. Obviously that looks different in different fields. The law of thermodynamics works. We don't start new everytime. Ideas in art work or don't work. Successful artists know about them and build on them.
    Yes but one can learn from looking at the works of more current artists/photographers than the earliest ones, or the ones us old guys learnt from. If you are studying a science you learn the science and not as much the history of that discipline. You learn where it is at currently much more than where it was 80 or 100 years ago. I can tell you very little of the early geographers compared to the ones working from after WWII for example. I found the members of my photography club not aware of even Henry Fox Talbot however they do spend a lot of time looking at photographs and other art that is much more contemporary so saying that because they do not know the pionners or the giants they are working in a vacuum is incorrect. They might be influenced by someone who was influenced by someone who studied the masters but they are not working in total ignorance. I started a monthly "Know the Masters" segment in the club. History is important and interesting however it is not vital to being a photographer. That is the point I think, does everyone have to know the entire history of photography to be a good photographer? I think not.

    The comments made by many are 'they cannot be great if they do not know Adams et al' however how many of us who do know them are great? I have to admit that I was not taught photo history when I was taught photography and my friend who is on APUG is always informing me of photographers I should have know about but that does not make his images greater than mine, if they are (and Ted I said IF) it is more due to him working his craft and vision more than I do. The young and the new comers are learning from the new or more contempary artists and fifty years from now those contempory artists are going to be the masters and the young will be learning from the contemporary leaders.

  7. #237

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    It's one of those things where you pick up these visual language elements without even realizing that you're doing it, just through sub-conscious exposure to them.
    I've noticed that my subconscious is mischievous, and sometimes one step ahead of my tastes. Say there's some photographers work I'm in two minds about - it has a way of filtering through into my image making before I've decided I even like it!
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  8. #238

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    Thanks, Søren Nielsen, for the link to Adam Marelli's video. His approach to photography is very refreshing.
    van Huyck Photo
    "Progress is only a direction, and it's often the wrong direction"

  9. #239
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soeren View Post
    A little while ago I found this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=zwk3YFknyNA

    through here

    http://erickimphotography.com/blog/page/2/

    Quite interesting I think

    Best regards
    One thing I noticed in that video was Adam Marelli's reference to the Robert Capa quote “If you aren’t good enough, it’s because you aren’t close enough.” He interpreted this as Capa meaning physical distance. I have sometimes wondered if Robert Capa meant close in an emotional way?

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  10. #240
    PhotoJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    One thing I noticed in that video was Adam Marelli's reference to the Robert Capa quote “If you aren’t good enough, it’s because you aren’t close enough.” He interpreted this as Capa meaning physical distance. I have sometimes wondered if Robert Capa meant close in an emotional way?
    My guess is that he probably meant both.
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?



 

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