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  1. #271
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    ... if you become part of the community....

    ....Almost none of those abilities are technical photographic skills.
    My point exactly....

    I don't have those other skills or resources, all I have is a vague semi-skil at photography lol

    Such is life...

    Anyway we are sort of way OT at this point. Back to the subject!



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    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  2. #272
    Pioneer's Avatar
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    History is something we are doomed to repeat.

    I believe it has always been rare for young people to think that history is anything but boring. Most young people have no idea of the history of their own digital toys. To many of them Apple and Nintendo has always been and Steve Jobs is an old guy who died recently and someone wrote a book about him.

    As some have already said, most people don't know the history of important world events that have occurred in the past 50 years. It should be no surprise that the names of some relatively obscure photographers would not ring a bell. Face it, there is a ton of important photographic history that most of us do not remember, if we ever knew. George Eastman is the well known founder of Kodak but does anyone know the two people who were his very important early partners, without which it is doubtful that Kodak would ever have come about. And just what was George Eastman's first product?

  3. #273
    Chris Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    History is something we are doomed to repeat.

    I believe it has always been rare for young people to think that history is anything but boring. Most young people have no idea of the history of their own digital toys. To many of them Apple and Nintendo has always been and Steve Jobs is an old guy who died recently and someone wrote a book about him.

    As some have already said, most people don't know the history of important world events that have occurred in the past 50 years. It should be no surprise that the names of some relatively obscure photographers would not ring a bell. Face it, there is a ton of important photographic history that most of us do not remember, if we ever knew. George Eastman is the well known founder of Kodak but does anyone know the two people who were his very important early partners, without which it is doubtful that Kodak would ever have come about. And just what was George Eastman's first product?
    It is this exact sentiment that I take issue with! The biography on Jobs has been read by a huge number of my friends, because we admire the work and legacy of such an innovative man (whether you agree with Apple's business approach or not is irrelevant, honestly). Nintendo was originally a playing card company in the previous century. People are so quick to judge...

    I remember the Apple II, and I remember the first iMac, and what a change in the computing world it made. I remember when broadband changed the scope of the internet and I probably had a myspace and facebook acccount before many of you did (surely before it was the in vogue thing for literally everyone to have.)

    The old ways will only be brought into the new era if people like myself choose to appreciate the variety of methodologies available to the creative process. It is this precise reason why the vast majority of young film users are the 16-25 segment, and not the 26-35 segment. We are sick of being pandered to by faceless corporations that want us to believe that a $500 DSLR and $99 18-55/3.5-5.6 or 50/1.8 is the best thing since sliced bread. We don't want our cameras to tell us what to do, just as much as we don't want our parents/teachers/advisors/etc to tell us what to do. If you can't respect the fact that when more than half of the members of this board will be dead in the next 40 years, the only people giving a shit about the traditions of fine-art photography will be those of my generation, I don't know what to tell you. If that scares you, then instead of belittling the next person who asks you about your Crown Graphic wondering how many megapixels it has, offer them a peek under the hood and let them try to shoot a frame. Film is cheap, and the knowledge that you might have turned a 17 year old into a future Rolleiflex/Graflex/Nikon F user should more than compensate you for the astronomically expensive loss of a 75¢-$2.00 sheet of film.

    For all it's worth, I have never, ever, ever encountered someone who thought less of me as a photographer because I choose to use film for my personal work. If anything it has garnered me greater respect from those who don't know the intricacies of the medium.

    Film doesn't make you special, it just makes you wait. Digital doesn't make you special, it just lets you be impatient.

    As to Stone's sentiment, forget privilege, my friends use Hasselblads and Leicas too, and we're all poor (former or currently enrolled) art students. The best film gear on the planet can be had for less than the cost of a mid-range DSLR if you know what you're after. Stop whining and make work, or don't say anything at all.

    You're not going to change the contemporary sensibilities in photography (which I primarily think are total bullshit), but if you want people to appreciate the craft and value of the darkroom the last way to do it is by belittling whatever methods they have chosen to work with up until that point. As far as I'm concerned, any young photographer that isn't versed in both sides of the medium (that is digital and traditional chemical processes) is a substandard candidate for any sort of creative job. If you aren't as comfortable with your eye in a D800E as you are behind an F3 or a Rollei, or a M6, or RZ67, much less in front of a Saunders 4550XLG or Focomat V35 as you are in Lightroom 5, then you have no place in the modern photographic fine art world.

    Unapologetic, but true. People that ignore the old ways and only focus on the new are short-changing themselves, and those that ignore the ways of the future and choose to live in the past are going to miss out on a hell of a lot of great evolution in the medium.
    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  4. #274
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Kicking butt and taking names... I like it.



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #275
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    It is this exact sentiment that I take issue with! The biography on Jobs has been read by a huge number of my friends, because we admire the work and legacy of such an innovative man (whether you agree with Apple's business approach or not is irrelevant, honestly). Nintendo was originally a playing card company in the previous century. People are so quick to judge...

    I remember the Apple II, and I remember the first iMac, and what a change in the computing world it made. I remember when broadband changed the scope of the internet and I probably had a myspace and facebook acccount before many of you did (surely before it was the in vogue thing for literally everyone to have.)

    The old ways will only be brought into the new era if people like myself choose to appreciate the variety of methodologies available to the creative process. It is this precise reason why the vast majority of young film users are the 16-25 segment, and not the 26-35 segment. We are sick of being pandered to by faceless corporations that want us to believe that a $500 DSLR and $99 18-55/3.5-5.6 or 50/1.8 is the best thing since sliced bread. We don't want our cameras to tell us what to do, just as much as we don't want our parents/teachers/advisors/etc to tell us what to do. If you can't respect the fact that when more than half of the members of this board will be dead in the next 40 years, the only people giving a shit about the traditions of fine-art photography will be those of my generation, I don't know what to tell you. If that scares you, then instead of belittling the next person who asks you about your Crown Graphic wondering how many megapixels it has, offer them a peek under the hood and let them try to shoot a frame. Film is cheap, and the knowledge that you might have turned a 17 year old into a future Rolleiflex/Graflex/Nikon F user should more than compensate you for the astronomically expensive loss of a 75¢-$2.00 sheet of film.

    For all it's worth, I have never, ever, ever encountered someone who thought less of me as a photographer because I choose to use film for my personal work. If anything it has garnered me greater respect from those who don't know the intricacies of the medium.

    Film doesn't make you special, it just makes you wait. Digital doesn't make you special, it just lets you be impatient.

    As to Stone's sentiment, forget privilege, my friends use Hasselblads and Leicas too, and we're all poor (former or currently enrolled) art students. The best film gear on the planet can be had for less than the cost of a mid-range DSLR if you know what you're after. Stop whining and make work, or don't say anything at all.

    You're not going to change the contemporary sensibilities in photography (which I primarily think are total bullshit), but if you want people to appreciate the craft and value of the darkroom the last way to do it is by belittling whatever methods they have chosen to work with up until that point. As far as I'm concerned, any young photographer that isn't versed in both sides of the medium (that is digital and traditional chemical processes) is a substandard candidate for any sort of creative job. If you aren't as comfortable with your eye in a D800E as you are behind an F3 or a Rollei, or a M6, or RZ67, much less in front of a Saunders 4550XLG or Focomat V35 as you are in Lightroom 5, then you have no place in the modern photographic fine art world.

    Unapologetic, but true. People that ignore the old ways and only focus on the new are short-changing themselves, and those that ignore the ways of the future and choose to live in the past are going to miss out on a hell of a lot of great evolution in the medium.
    Fair enough, (tip o' the hat).

    PS did Lightroom 5 actually come out? I thought it was on ore-order... Lol


    Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #276
    Katie's Avatar
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    Holy shit, that's good. You give me hope...

  7. #277
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    I personally have no worry for the future generations of photographers. I worry a little about their technique, but not their enthusiasm. I took a walk with a young man (family friends taking a walk together) who held a small digital camera at arms-length to take in the sun coming through spots on the ocean. I could have wished he had a tripod, or that he caught the light from a more illuminating angle. But it was reassuring to see him experience the pure joy of capturing the scene before him.

    At least two young men/women I know have an interest in film and recently got 35mm SLR's. Haaa, I just realized. I have black and white pictures of both of them, I remember now - the young woman at a friend's barbecue and the young man at the Eagle Court of Honor.

  8. #278
    Pioneer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    It is this exact sentiment that I take issue with! The biography on Jobs has been read by a huge number of my friends, because we admire the work and legacy of such an innovative man (whether you agree with Apple's business approach or not is irrelevant, honestly). Nintendo was originally a playing card company in the previous century. People are so quick to judge...

    I remember the Apple II, and I remember the first iMac, and what a change in the computing world it made. I remember when broadband changed the scope of the internet and I probably had a myspace and facebook acccount before many of you did (surely before it was the in vogue thing for literally everyone to have.)

    The old ways will only be brought into the new era if people like myself choose to appreciate the variety of methodologies available to the creative process. It is this precise reason why the vast majority of young film users are the 16-25 segment, and not the 26-35 segment. We are sick of being pandered to by faceless corporations that want us to believe that a $500 DSLR and $99 18-55/3.5-5.6 or 50/1.8 is the best thing since sliced bread. We don't want our cameras to tell us what to do, just as much as we don't want our parents/teachers/advisors/etc to tell us what to do. If you can't respect the fact that when more than half of the members of this board will be dead in the next 40 years, the only people giving a shit about the traditions of fine-art photography will be those of my generation, I don't know what to tell you. If that scares you, then instead of belittling the next person who asks you about your Crown Graphic wondering how many megapixels it has, offer them a peek under the hood and let them try to shoot a frame. Film is cheap, and the knowledge that you might have turned a 17 year old into a future Rolleiflex/Graflex/Nikon F user should more than compensate you for the astronomically expensive loss of a 75¢-$2.00 sheet of film.

    For all it's worth, I have never, ever, ever encountered someone who thought less of me as a photographer because I choose to use film for my personal work. If anything it has garnered me greater respect from those who don't know the intricacies of the medium.

    Film doesn't make you special, it just makes you wait. Digital doesn't make you special, it just lets you be impatient.

    As to Stone's sentiment, forget privilege, my friends use Hasselblads and Leicas too, and we're all poor (former or currently enrolled) art students. The best film gear on the planet can be had for less than the cost of a mid-range DSLR if you know what you're after. Stop whining and make work, or don't say anything at all.

    You're not going to change the contemporary sensibilities in photography (which I primarily think are total bullshit), but if you want people to appreciate the craft and value of the darkroom the last way to do it is by belittling whatever methods they have chosen to work with up until that point. As far as I'm concerned, any young photographer that isn't versed in both sides of the medium (that is digital and traditional chemical processes) is a substandard candidate for any sort of creative job. If you aren't as comfortable with your eye in a D800E as you are behind an F3 or a Rollei, or a M6, or RZ67, much less in front of a Saunders 4550XLG or Focomat V35 as you are in Lightroom 5, then you have no place in the modern photographic fine art world.

    Unapologetic, but true. People that ignore the old ways and only focus on the new are short-changing themselves, and those that ignore the ways of the future and choose to live in the past are going to miss out on a hell of a lot of great evolution in the medium.
    Well said Chris, and you obviously enjoy history. You have taken the time to learn why things are the way they are, and where they came from. You believe that someone cannot realize their full potential until they understand their past and appreciate the future.

    But, sadly, you and your friends are not the norm in our world. Of course that unwillingness to learn and move forward effects all ages.



 

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