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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    I believe this was also the case before digital. Someone had a camera and wanted to do "fine art." I seriously doubt that most of them knew the history of the medium. Showing pictures to professionals was probably the first time they heard of any historical figures in photography.

    Some even had the nerve to show how good they were by subjecting their families and friends to slide shows!

    Or, put another way, my parents were wrong to criticize the music I listened to when I was young. Now, the music of today is a completely different story.

    I have always had contact with fine art photographer wannabes. In the past they were seeking knowledge and skills. I started this thread because I have noticed a striking change.

    I would be DELIGHTED to be proven wrong.

    OH, and, WHAT music of today? You mean THAT'S supposed to be MUSIC!!??? ;-)

  2. #22

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    We're all 'fine art photographer wannabes' until someone in the know gives a sh*t.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark View Post
    If time travel were possible I guarantee that no matter what time period you chose you would find the same age divide. Boredom is part of the definition of being young. Instant gratification is what the young have always wanted. As a youngun I HATED history and everything to do with it. I knew about Ansel Adams because of his images were of places I wanted to go. Old Weston had Charis and she took her clothes off. Honestly I did not need to know any more than that and did not want to. As these young folks who are bored now age they will become more and more interested.
    Of course it's true that when you're young you're foolish and when you're old you get wiser, but the problem goes deeper in that I think nowadays we teach foolishness to the young. I've seen so many people talking about science/history/you name it who basically teach that thanks to science we are rational, logical creatures in the 21st century and we understand the world and in the rest of history everyone was religious and stupid and they killed one another and hated their kids.
    We teach our kids that anything before now is bad. We teach them that anything that is the status quo is bad. They don't learn to understand the difference between principles and boundaries, boundaries being the limits we get to push as we get older/smarter/further and principles being the things that allow us to push the boundaries (for instance w/o basic math principles like 2+2=4 we would never have had calculus).
    I agree with the OP that if this continues many things will indeed be lost. If we teach our kids not to stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before than they'll be reinventing the wheel eventually.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidkachel View Post
    mark,
    I strongly disagree with the notion that talent is simply genetic or that zero knowledge of the history of one's medium makes no difference.
    These kids I see coming through here have no skill set at all. The fact they have never seen a good image shows terribly. You're suggesting that working in a vacuum is OK.
    Then, as a gallery owner and one who is concerned with the future of the medium have a responsibility to inform them of this when you turn them down.

    And you seem to assume knowledge of the past dictates talent. Knowledge of the history of the craft as well as training in the craft does not in anyway dictate talent. If it did then I think I need to schedule my opening at your gallery. I can be there next week as I have a week off and we can hang my images. I have a pretty solid knowledge of Photography's past, at least in the area of photography I practice, and can discuss it at length.

    Yes that is absurd. Yes I do believe a person can be as talented as the greats, or more talented, having never seen the works of the greats. Call it a diamond in the rough.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  5. #25

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    We are just not going to see eye to eye on this HorceKenneth. Your opinion does not coincide with my daily experience. Granted, I have only been teaching for 13 years, but I have never seen nor heard any thing resembling what you talk about.
    Last edited by mark; 03-13-2013 at 05:41 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  6. #26
    AgX
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    As a teacher at a photo department at an art academy I would be much, much more concerned about the knowledge of general history of my students than that of history of art or the evolution of the photographic image.

    To me art is about the relation between the individual and his environment. The understanding of, the ability to look at this environment is more important than the knowledge of the evolution within arts, which rather makes art selfcentered.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidkachel View Post
    mark,

    Are you politely trying to say I am a grumpy old fart, worried about nothing?

    HARRUMPH!

    (I hope you're right.)
    I was called a grumpy old fart today. How about we go gum a sandwich into submission and complain about the youth.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  8. #28

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    I too put the these photographers in their historical and social context.
    It's not just about technique. I give them an idea, as best I can, of the temper of the times these photographers worked in.


    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I would disagree with this in part, as the technical effort put into a shot, in the form of a wet plate or a digital snap is only important from a fine art context, or painterly view. What makes some of the shots taken by these photographers is the historical and social context. My younger students appreciate pictures by Weegee when I explain the photograph in context of the situation, or HCB in terms of MO to get the shot.

  9. #29

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    I've seen some of these young people, you know:
    They seem to have the most outlandish haircuts, and I've even seen some of the females wearing trousers and smoking in the street.
    What's more, they cheek their elders.

  10. #30

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    Yeah, that was me and my friends 40 years ago.
    Funny though, I knew who Atget and Cartier Bresson (among others) were.
    I guess I had an interest in photography, at the time.


    Quote Originally Posted by pdeeh View Post
    I've seen some of these young people, you know:
    They seem to have the most outlandish haircuts, and I've even seen some of the females wearing trousers and smoking in the street.
    What's more, they cheek their elders.

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