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  1. #31

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    i sure do !
    its sumatra, but it's not Kopi Luwak

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    i sure do !
    its sumatra, but it's not Kopi Luwak
    ( no I've never been tempted to roast that either! )

  3. #33
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    But, but, but, some of the darkroom people use tongs........


    I do realize that darkroom work is very difficult but I much prefer to push the button on my digital camera then take out the card, stick it in my computer and push another button to retouching the image, then push the print button and its all done.


    Then I push the button on my phone and call the client and they come in and I push the button on my computer and deposit the money into my account.

    My work is not handmade it's finger made.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestarter View Post
    When we make prints in the darkroom we remove a sheet of paper from it's box and place it on the easel. Then while the paper is being exposed we may dodge and burn areas of the print using masks or using our hands.

    Then the sheet of paper is placed into the tray of developer using our hands of course, and then we agitate the tray or print again using our hands. Same then applies to the stop and fix. Then a darkroom printers print will go through various stages of washing and toning again by hand.

    The print will then be dried and if needed spotted.....by hand...and so on etc etc

    So I think it's fair to say a traditional silver print is " hand printed "

    So what about digital photographers?


    ?
    That is almost a treasonable offence on this site. There is a mandatory death sentence for treason!

  5. #35

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    I don't believe in bashing digital but I think there might be a legitimate difference between wet prints and inkjet, and between negatives and computer file images. A difference worth exploring because it informs how we think about art.

  6. #36

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    I don't know where you draw the line on this "hand made" stuff. I guess I could argue my prints are worth more than those made by a guy who processes his negatives with a Jobo machine, because I tray-process.

    And what about the fact I use enlarging paper coated by Ilford, as opposed to some guy making his own Azo emulsions?

    In the end this is all marketing silliness. Unless you're going to detail how every step in the end to end process is done, nobody knows what hand made means.

  7. #37

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    I think hand made can be a little misleading here. By the definition of hand made, I believe a digital picture and with inkjet print is every bit as hand made as a silver gelatin print. Doing digital work and prints yourself is every bit as "hard" as darkroom work. I might argue that the darkroom may even be EASIER. Yes I said it! In order to get good consistent inkjet prints, you have to calibrate your monitor, and calibrate the printer (and keep it in calibration). None of which are very easy tasks. Trust me, I run a prepress department and do monitor, printer, proofer and press calibrations for a living. A good RIP to handle color calibrations for multiple substrates and conditions can cost as much as $10,000.

    We had a digital photographer shoot our wedding. Yes, we got a ton of pictures, as you would expect with any digital based photographer. They spent about 80 hours editing the images, and the work really shows.

    NOW, I think the proper term should be HAND CRAFTED. Thats the difference for me between digital and analog. When I'm contemplating an image or shoot, I choose the camera, and lens I want to shoot with. I also choose a film that suits my vision of the shoot. I then have variables to consider like developer, development style. Then I have even more to think about when making enlargements. With the term "craft" you don't have to get into whether a peson is using a more automated darkroom, or is using open trays. Its not about time spent, or how much work goes into an enlargement. I've had (very few) negatives in which I had to do no dodging/burning and only had to settle on the right contrast and exposure time. That print is no less hand crafted than one where I cut 5 masks, burn here, dodge there. I just means I did my job right when making the initial exposure!

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by edcculus View Post
    I think hand made can be a little misleading here.
    I agree, I think it is a confusing way of expressing a more important question which is - how do we see the difference between analog and digital? Are they the same?

    I'm not trying to say that digital is bad or anything. I think the OP is right that there is a difference, if hand made is inaccurate, what is it?

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by horacekenneth View Post
    I agree, I think it is a confusing way of expressing a more important question which is - how do we see the difference between analog and digital? Are they the same?

    I'm not trying to say that digital is bad or anything. I think the OP is right that there is a difference, if hand made is inaccurate, what is it?

    I think its mostly that the phrase "hand made" just does not give a complete enough description anymore.

  10. #40
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    My distinction between handmade items versus machine made is each handmade piece is slightly unique because humans are lousy at repeating a task or a process exactly the same every time. Machines on the other hand are lousy and being random and adding uniqueness to each item. The consumer has the final say in the value of the product. I'd rather have a hand made piece of art, while I like the consistency of machine manufactured goods like film.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

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