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  1. #21
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    Let's face it. Film photographers are packing around a lot of anger these days. They are feeling self conscious, and unsure of themselves. If they weren't why would we be having all these threads by analog people complaining about digital shooters and digital prints.
    Because they're trying desperately to preserve just about the last surviving online meeting place they can go to discuss their craft without being called idiots. That's where the anger you sense is coming from. Not from a sense of being unsure or self-conscious about analog itself.

    They're attempting to flee from the hordes of d-evangelists who won't be satisfied until this final online film oasis is overrun. Apparently those other 999,999 d-sites are not enough for them. They want all 1,000,000.

    The complaints are less about digital in general, and more about digital overrunning Sean's analog oasis.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 03-15-2013 at 04:53 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Spelling...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  2. #22

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    I don't see any threads about digital overrunning the analog oasis.
    I do see consistent attacks being launched against the very idea of digital, and the constant denigration of digital users and digital photographs as idiotic and stupid and ugly.
    There's no need.
    APUG can remain film-focused without denigrating and abusing others.

  3. #23

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    I would have said to Molly that there is more to photography than merely pointing a camera in the general direction of the subject and taking a couple of dozen photographs in the hope that one will be satisfactory. There are concepts such as previsualization, composition, time-parallax compensation, etc, etc that a good photographer takes into consideration before he presses the shutter. These techiques help to ensure that a photo iis likely to be good. But she probably won't understand any of it.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  4. #24
    bobwysiwyg's Avatar
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    I'm not sure about the anger thing. I pack none. I enjoy doing what I do and the way I do it. If I'm ever asked why, I try to explain, no more no less. Whatever ultimately happens to film will not be changed by my, or anyone else's anger. Just have confidence in what you're doing and do it.
    WYSIWYG - At least that's my goal.

    Portfolio-http://apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=25518

  5. #25
    Maris's Avatar
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    It reminds me of the last time I was shooting 8x10 in the field and the inevitable camera-toting kibbitzer (alias buttinski) showed up and popped the inevitable question "What are you doing?"

    After a bit of banter about it not being an old camera and how I "develop my own", it got down to the question of how did I know the pictures will "come out". I assured my new friend that film exposure and development were very precise and then gave him a look under the focussing cloth at the groundglass. While I was getting the usual "wow", "it's in colour", "it's upside down", I pointed out that the view camera can do something no digital camera can do. The groundglass enables "chimping" of the final image in full, with all the details exactly how they will appear, BEFORE taking the picture. The digital cameras folks carry around enable chimping of a mere "preview" only AFTER the picture is taken.

    If digital cameras omitted the little reassurance screens on the back, if they didn't offer chimping, their sales would plummet to a fraction of present levels. And people would have to relearn how photography actually works.
    Last edited by Maris; 03-15-2013 at 04:56 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: spelling
    Photography, the word itself, invented and defined by its author Sir John.F.W.Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society, Somerset House, London. Quote "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..". unquote.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maris View Post
    It reminds me of the last time I was shooting 8x10 in the field and the inevitable camera-toting kibbitzer (alias buttinski) showed up and popped the inevitable question "What are you doing?"

    After a bit of banter about it not being an old camera and how I "develop my own", it got down to the question of how did I know the pictures will "come out". I assured my new friend that film exposure and development were very precise and then gave him a look under the focussing cloth at the groundglass. While I was getting the usual "wow", "it's in colour", "it's upside down", I pointed out that the view camera can do something no digital camera can do. The groundglass enables "chimping" of the final image in full, with all the details exactly how they will appear, BEFORE taking the picture. The digital cameras folks carry around enable chimping of a mere "preview" only AFTER the picture is taken.

    If digital cameras omitted the little reassurance screens on the back, if they didn't offer chimping, their sales would plummet to a fraction of present levels. And people would have to relearn how photography actually works.
    What, you mean you trust light?

    s-a
    I photograph things to see what things look like photographed.
    - Garry Winogrand

  7. #27
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maris View Post
    If digital cameras omitted the little reassurance screens on the back, if they didn't offer chimping, their sales would plummet to a fraction of present levels. And people would have to relearn how photography actually works.
    But they don't.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  8. #28
    Maris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    But they don't.
    I think Leica will eventually do it. No preview screen...just for the purists.
    Photography, the word itself, invented and defined by its author Sir John.F.W.Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society, Somerset House, London. Quote "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..". unquote.

  9. #29
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maris View Post
    I think Leica will eventually do it. No preview screen...just for the purists.
    Maris, I know when you are trying to wind me up.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  10. #30

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    Actually, I have nothing against digital photography. My problem is I detest the behavior it requires - hours of sitting on my ass in front of a computer after having already sat on my ass in front of a computer for 30 years. However, I have grown to detest people who simply must tell me that sitting on my ass in front of a computer is so much better in every way than all the tactile wonderfulness I experience with film photography. Mollly was not doing that, only expressing amazement at finding somebody who both understands and enjoys film. And Molly is a wonderful young woman, intelligent, funny, very good at her job, and confident in a room full of men.

    Playing the cranky old man, I find liberating - sort of living life as performance art.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

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