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  1. #61
    zsas's Avatar
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    David - If you owned a nice lens and then in the course of its life sent it for repair to an authorized/reputable repair person (Canon, Minolta, Nikon, Leica, KEH, Precision, Jane Doe, etc...), then if you sold the lens, would you provide the buyer with that information (eg what was repaired, when, by whom, even a receipt of such maintence, etc.)?

    A simple Yes or No answer please....
    Andy

  2. #62
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    David - If you owned a nice lens and then in the course of its life sent it for repair to an authorized/reputable repair person (Canon, Minolta, Nikon, Leica, KEH, Precision, Jane Doe, etc...), then if you sold the lens, would you provide the buyer with that information (eg what was repaired, when, by whom, even a receipt of such maintence, etc.)?
    Good question, and I was about to suggest that this should have been part of the original post/question, as I believe it relates to what I perceive as the intent of the OP. I do not wish to presume David's intents, but if I am correct, this would soften the distinction being attempted.

    Things seemed to have gotten a bit out of hand, as they tend to do online. One must read carefully due to the absence of inflection and other non-verbal ques.
    I'd reread the first number of posts a bit ago and it did remind me of conversations I'd had years ago, while drinking tea late at nite in my college dorm room. I miss those conversations, but they don't seem to work so well online.

    Of course, I could be totally wrong.
    Truzi

  3. #63
    David Lyga's Avatar
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    see below (sorry). See post # 67. -DL
    Last edited by David Lyga; 06-14-2013 at 10:42 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #64
    Richard Sintchak (rich815)'s Avatar
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    I did not have those fears because I know what I buy, always. I should have been more introspective. - David Lyga
    Unless the person selling to you decided that you knowing the item was stolen was not necessary to tell you. After all the physical integrity for the item to do its job is not affected...
    Last edited by Richard Sintchak (rich815); 06-14-2013 at 09:59 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    -----------------------

    "Well, my photos are actually much better than they look..."

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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    ... Honestly, I have been going to camera shows for decades and really and I truly do not care what the dealer says about his item being considered for my purchase, other than it is not stolen. I know 'what I buy' so intimately that my personal inspection suffices for my needs. I am rarely wrong, but I stay away from stuff that I do not know, as my ignorance does terrify me. (In numismatics my ignorance terrifies me more because of the money involved.)

    I guess I tended to project this thinking onto the population at large. ...
    Buying at a camera show (or shop) and buying "mailorder" (sight unseen) is apples and oranges. One cannot project the buyers approach or sense of confidence between the two. To do so is a grave error of logic.

  6. #66
    David Lyga's Avatar
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    Your responses all make sense, to a greater or lesser extent, and I have learned something here.

    Amazingly, people on this forum do NOT know 'of me' or 'who I am' and, therefore MUST adhere to a generic doubtfulness with regards to the human race, as a whole. This cautionary, even exessively cautionary, mindset is not detrimental to our very survival (and perhaps even enhances it). Who am I to think that I am so noble and to be treated without scrutiny? Again, I did learn something here.

    Why did I think otherwise? Honestly, I have been going to camera shows for decades and, really and truly, I do not care what the dealer says about his item being considered for my purchase, other than it is not stolen. I know 'what I buy' so intimately that my personal inspection suffices for my needs. I am rarely wrong, but I stay away from stuff that I do not know, as my ignorance does terrify me. (In numismatics my ignorance terrifies me more because of the money involved.)

    I guess I tended to project this thinking onto the population at large. At first, I thought that this might simply be a grand attack upon me for personal reasons but, reading carefully all of your angst, I now get the impression that many of you are genuinely afraid of what you will buy next because you have suffered being taken advantage of in the past and know well how easy it is to fall victim once again. I did not have those fears because I know what I buy, always. I should have been more introspective.

    As far as 'ruining my reputation' goes, I could have posed these questions anonymously. I chose not to because I am rather secure with what people think about me who know my face. Posing this original question can also be taken in a theorectical sense and does not have to segue into an 'actual transaction intended to deceive', assumption.

    zsas: I honestly do not know if I would really bother giving information concerning previous professional servicing. Why? What transpired after that servicing just might delegitimatize the good work done. In fact, 'the good work done' might have been done on an 'off day'. Time might reveal this fact. Telling of the 'good servicing' thus might be counterproductive towards the good will intended. So, I guess the simple 'yes' or 'no' you ask for might be, essentially, 'no, not necessarily'. Who really knows the FULL story of a camera or lens? - David Lyga

  7. #67

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    SNIP SNIP SNIP

    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    You have a used SLR with a dented top. It looks ugly but functions flawlessly. You have another top from a junked, identical body. Would you make the switch, without disclosure to the buyer, in order to sell it more easily, even if the serial number was now changed? Without hesitation, I would. Why not? There is nothing missing and the camera has not been downgraded. David Lyga
    getting back to the original questions david

    yes i would swap out the top of the camera
    and yes, i would tell the potential buyer.

    better yet, i would sell the camera as is + dented
    and tell the buyer that i would be happy to swap out
    the top for him / her for a few dollars more.

    i would also assure the buyer that this would not affect the performance
    in any way, and offer them a money back guarantee so if there was a problem
    in 30 days because of something that happened when the tops were swapped out
    they could return it or get a partial refund to have it professional repaired.

    what is the point in being secretive ... if you are confident your work will
    cause no problems, say so to the potential buyer and then stand behind the work you did
    with a grace period.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    Thus, Jon Goodman is a person of consummate integrity (and a good man). I guess I am not. - David Lyga
    David, I in no way meant to impugn your reputation. I only meant to state that Jon weaves some great selling tales. If you felt this was directed towards you, I most humbly apologize to you, and to anyone else who thought I might have meant you.

    To reply other points, I do not think any owner has an obligation of disassemble any equipment before selling. If there is an unknown defect, then I would not hold the previous owner responsible.

    Purposely hiding defects is another story, but that has not been suggested here.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by ambaker View Post
    I only meant to state that Jon weaves some great selling tales.
    That ad style and reputation are not directly related. Jon has a good reputation because he sells good product and provides good service... and has proven himself both reputable and honest. Interestingly (perhaps), that "Dagor77 style" ad doesn't work for everyone. Folks who, like me apparently, are somewhat humor-impaired and "just the facts"-oriented hate that. It gives the appearance of inane babbling to me and I don't look at any of those kind of ads anymore. Some find it cute and funny... and then there are folks like me. Maybe I need a "happy pill"!

  10. #70
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Lyga View Post
    ...
    Posing this original question can also be taken in a theorectical sense and does not have to segue into an 'actual transaction intended to deceive', assumption.
    Perhaps I've read too much Plato, but this is how I interpreted your original post, and it seemed obvious to me (especially at post #4). An hypothetical situation to discuss and learn (other people's views) from.
    Truzi

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