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  1. #11
    ath
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    I don't understand German.
    Well I am studding German.
    Who else I ask out there nobody knows nothing about.
    OK, I'm rude now.
    Do your homework. If you don't understand german get a lawyer to translate it for you. I directed you to the relevant law and I'm sure there's english information on the web about this law.

    Or simply just don't sell your prints.
    Last edited by ath; 06-14-2013 at 06:33 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Regards,
    Andreas

  2. #12
    marciofs's Avatar
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    Sorry, I didn't mean offend people.
    No more question then.

    Thank you for the link.

  3. #13

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    When you say 'models', do you mean people you've actually hired to photograph? Because that's what 'model' means. If so, they have at the very least verbally consented and the proof that they have consented is in the picture - the fact that they have posed for your camera. The only case they have against you is "HE MADE ME LOOK UGLY!!!", which admittedly, is a very timely problem for photographers, but definitely still recognised as nonsense by lawyers ... as of 2013.

    If you're talking about 'candid' photographs in the street, completely different story. And in which case, who are you selling the prints to? Galleries? Directly to other people? Regardless, assuming you aren't intentionally photographing subjects doing something criminal and assuming you aren't doing something criminal to get (or in distributing) the pictures, and assuming you haven't aggressively invaded people's personal space (to their distress illustrated in the picture, but this is still ambiguous in the court), nobody has a case against you. With that understood, 'selling prints' to the public or galleries puts the images safely in the realm of art. This is all common sense and I'm sure the law in Germany respects it.
    Last edited by batwister; 06-14-2013 at 09:51 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  4. #14
    darkosaric's Avatar
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    Hi marciofs,

    I put the text from link in Google translate and I was able to get most of it. You can additionally print German and translated version of Wikipedia article and analyze it with you colleagues at university. I know that here in Germany they are more sensitive to privacy than in other countries (just look on Google maps - so many blurred places, more than in any other country).

    little of topic:
    About not speaking German - this is problem that you should work on it: I am not German, I lived as ex-pat (and still do) in many countries and I have find out that in Germany this is a problem. I expected that in Germany everybody will speak some English (at least younger generation). In telecom shop where you buy sim card, in center of Hamburg - I got "no English", on some big multinational company helpdesks when I asked "do you speak english" - they were hanging up to me...not to mention some local shops. My German is not on zero level, so I was able to manage somehow on German. But this is a problem. You can get 600 hours of German lessons for price of 1 hour =1 euro, supported by government, make some inquiries about it if you did not already.

    regards,

  5. #15
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Here is another point that I have no idea how it relates to Germany.

    Even if you aren't required by law to get a release, it doesn't stop anyone from filing a suit. Whether they are successful or not is beside the point, it will cost you money to go to court. Best to cover all your bases.
    Truzi

  6. #16

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    This discussion could only happen on the net, because it's fueled by paranoia. Come on guys, self-fulfilling prophecies and all.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  7. #17
    marciofs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    When you say 'models', do you mean people you've actually hired to photograph? Because that's what 'model' means. If so, they have at the very least verbally consented and the proof that they have consented is in the picture - the fact that they have posed for your camera. The only case they have against you is "HE MADE ME LOOK UGLY!!!", which admittedly, is a very timely problem for photographers, but definitely still recognised as nonsense by lawyers ... as of 2013.

    If you're talking about 'candid' photographs in the street, completely different story. And in which case, who are you selling the prints to? Galleries? Directly to other people? Regardless, assuming you aren't intentionally photographing subjects doing something criminal and assuming you aren't doing something criminal to get (or in distributing) the pictures, and assuming you haven't aggressively invaded people's personal space (to their distress illustrated in the picture, but this is still ambiguous in the court), nobody has a case against you. With that understood, 'selling prints' to the public or galleries puts the images safely in the realm of art. This is all common sense and I'm sure the law in Germany respects it.
    When I say models I am referring to people who I have hired or trade to be part of a photo shoot project.
    And my intention is to make it available to people buy direct from me, contacting me from my website, in PODs and helpfully in galleries and action houses eventually.
    Never for commercial work like brand or product advertise.

    I do street photographs but they are not what I want to sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkosaric View Post
    Hi marciofs,

    I put the text from link in Google translate and I was able to get most of it. You can additionally print German and translated version of Wikipedia article and analyze it with you colleagues at university. I know that here in Germany they are more sensitive to privacy than in other countries (just look on Google maps - so many blurred places, more than in any other country).

    little of topic:
    About not speaking German - this is problem that you should work on it: I am not German, I lived as ex-pat (and still do) in many countries and I have find out that in Germany this is a problem. I expected that in Germany everybody will speak some English (at least younger generation). In telecom shop where you buy sim card, in center of Hamburg - I got "no English", on some big multinational company helpdesks when I asked "do you speak english" - they were hanging up to me...not to mention some local shops. My German is not on zero level, so I was able to manage somehow on German. But this is a problem. You can get 600 hours of German lessons for price of 1 hour =1 euro, supported by government, make some inquiries about it if you did not already.

    regards,
    Thank you very much. I will try it.

    I actually did a intensive A1 curse. I passed to next level but since I have a surgery to take two wase theeth in two weeks, and it will be a complicated one. I thought on continuous the next level on the German curse after the surgery.
    It means I can say some things, understand a bit others and have some simple basic short talk, but no more than it.

    Thank you again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    Here is another point that I have no idea how it relates to Germany.

    Even if you aren't required by law to get a release, it doesn't stop anyone from filing a suit. Whether they are successful or not is beside the point, it will cost you money to go to court. Best to cover all your bases.
    You are right. But since in Ireland I wasn't used to get model release (because I know there is not required and is like Batwister described), and because I have a folder full of papers already, I though it would make my life more organised if I didn't have to collect more papers for the rest of my life.

    But I will follow your suggestion to get a release from each model I photograph from now on. Because even if I never use them it still is a guarantee I have just in case.

    Thank all.

  8. #18
    MattKing's Avatar
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    A release is an excellent idea for another reason. It makes clear to the "model" that their image may be used commercially/shared publicly.

    A "professional" model will understand that and be aware of the consequences to them. Someone who isn't knowledgeable about the use of photographs might not have thought it through.

    It is much, much better to have someone change their mind about you photographing them before you take a photograph than to have them upset and angry afterwards.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #19
    marciofs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    A release is an excellent idea for another reason. It makes clear to the "model" that their image may be used commercially/shared publicly.

    A "professional" model will understand that and be aware of the consequences to them. Someone who isn't knowledgeable about the use of photographs might not have thought it through.

    It is much, much better to have someone change their mind about you photographing them before you take a photograph than to have them upset and angry afterwards.
    I am always very clear how I will use the image. There is no way they can't tell I want sell them. I even cast models through the same website I sell the photos and I offer a payment to models I have traded if I sell a photo of them in one year time from the shoot date. I actually ask models if I can give their social media profiles to new models so they can say how safe, honest and fun is to work with me.

    But I will collect releases from now on.

  10. #20
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Most of the time you will be fine, but once in a while someone may cause trouble for you. It's better to be protected.
    C.Y.A. - Cover Your Ass.
    Truzi

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