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  1. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by winger View Post
    He said nothing about it being "if the subject is upset, all the better" and he didn't get the shot he was hoping for.

    he has insinuated that he doesn't really care and if someone is not happy with his photographing them ... great.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Rider View Post
    Some of the best photo's have consisted of people displeased with the camera.



    maybe you don't mind people taking photographs of your kids being kids
    but clearly the lady whose kids he photographed did.

    she didn't know him, he wasn't a friend, he was some guy hanging out on a park bench/table
    for 5 mins staring at her kids, and she felt violated by it ...
    she had every right to act the way she did, just as he had every right to photograph her kids in the park.
    i know he didn't literally attack her, but he violated her which to ME is the same as an attack.

    sometimes people ( on both sides ) need to be responsible for their actions ...
    and it seems that neither the lady nor the photographer have considered this ...
    i am sure if the lady appeared here on apug we'd hear a different version of the story ..

  2. #262
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    she and her kids were "attacked" too ...
    Taking pictures while sitting there on a bench (and remember, he was there first) does not in any way constitute an attack.


    and now stone ( and the peanut gallery ) has attached her again by suggesting the only reason she didn't
    want to have her photograph taken was because she was "fat and ugly" ... ( like all fat / ugly women? )
    and if she was a "beautiful person" she would have relished the extra attention she was getting.
    That was not the same woman, same situation, or same photographer.


    if ming and stone did nothing wrong .. the lady did nothing wrong either ...
    she didn't want a stranger who had been staring/spying at her and her kids
    for 3-5 minutes photographing them.
    Stone was not involved in either situation; he just made a comment. There is nothing to indicate that ming had been staring/spying at them. If a kid is jumping over a bench right between two people (which lots of folks would call misbehaving), then watching that kid can hardly be called staring, and sitting on a bench in plain view while so doing can never be called spying.


    if a person with a camera is going to take grab shots
    ( and if the subject is upset all the better ) then the photographer
    gets what he paid for if/when the subject calls them names, verbally abuses them and/or calls the police.
    Yes, it comes with the territory. But it doesn't justify the name-calling and verbal abuse, or the general overreaction.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  3. #263
    Ming Rider's Avatar
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    Where I said that 'some of the best photo's have been where the subject is displeased with the camera', I posted a link to a famous photo by William Klein. Sadly the link didn't work, so hopefully here it is.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1373555857.123976.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	91.1 KB 
ID:	71383

    Could this picture be called exploitative, perverse or for sexual gratification? At the time, Klein was a relative unknown (irrelevant if you weren't into art or photography) and was younger than me.

    At the risk of getting bored sh*tless, the 'lady' only objected or showed any interest (as far as I'm aware) when she was leaving.

    I didn't stare, stalk, persue, hound or pester.

    The method of shooting I use exclusively and one that will be familiar to anyone who's studied the work and techniques of Bresson, Winogrand, Meyerowitz etc, will be familiar with the style of pre-setting the focus, aperture and shutter and often way before you're ready to take the shot. Then you let your arm hang downwards with the camera and there it stays . . . until you see a shot, raise the camera and for the tiniest of moments check the composition, then click. Camera goes back down.
    It takes 1.5 - 2 seconds (yes I've timed it).

    That is not stalking, pestering or harrassing.

    Winger,

    I had also considered the possibility she thought I was going to 'split' on her.
    Last edited by Ming Rider; 07-11-2013 at 10:38 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "All I ask for is an M5 with a fast lens, a roll of HP5 and a street to shoot her by."

    StreetPhotographyBlog

  4. #264

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    what a second ..
    stone wasn't there ?
    he's not the anchorman on the news?
    someone can't figuratively attack someone?
    people can't be respectful of others?
    people can't over react or be FOS ?

    get out of town .. !



  5. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    One of these days I'm going to give you a truckload of grief over run-on sentences.
    I admit I tend to babble...


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #266
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    she didn't know him, he wasn't a friend, he was some guy hanging out on a park bench/table
    for 5 mins staring at her kids, and she felt violated by it ...
    He was there first. He said he tried three times to get a picture; she did not object. How long he spent trying to get a picture is not clear. After he gave up trying, another five minutes went by without a peep from her. It is not clear if he was even still watching the kid. It was only after those five minutes had passed, as they were leaving, that she accosted him. So how did that protect her kids, anyway?

    she had every right to act the way she did,
    She was unreasonable. She accosted him, creating a disturbance, by yelling at him "You're a sick pervert for photographing my kids!"
    So--anyone who takes a picture of her kid is a sick pervert. Is that reasonable?
    Is it anyone's right to loudly attack someone else just because they don't like what that person is doing? She sounds to me like a bit of a nutcase, not behaving as a reasonable person would.

    i know he didn't literally attack her, but he violated her which to ME is the same as an attack.
    Violated how? He tried to take a picture of her kid jumping over a bench, in plain view of everybody. Her child entered his field of view, his viewing space; he did not follow or pursue the child, or even move to get a different angle. Just because she FELT violated, it doesn't mean she WAS violated.

    As I said earlier, what are we supposed to do? Avert our eyes whenever children are around?
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  7. #267
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    Seems to me a situation evolved around the OP, it doesn't appear to me that photographing unruly kids who were jumping on a park bench whilst elderly strangers share the same bench is a violation of their privacy. In my book, those kids were violating the privacy of those elders who were there first. I bet had one of those kids injured those elders Ming's pictures and corroboration of events would have helped. The actions of the mother I've no comment on....

    So Ming, yes or no question, were there elderly strangers on a park bench that some kids (accompanied by their mother) turned into their play land?

    Or were they all together - grandparents, uncles/friends, whatnot and their "energy intrigued you" and you attempted to photograph it?
    Andy

  8. #268

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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    ... The actions of the mother I've no comment on...
    .. but that is the ONLY thing worth focussing on. We all know Ming was within his legal rights. All of the rest is a discussion of his ethics and personal beliefs on privacy -- which aren't worth discussing. The details of the situation, particularly th realtionship between the parties on the bench, may be quite irrelevant... but it may be interesting.

  9. #269

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    Can you post the pictures because I wasn't able to see them before, I don't know how you posted them but it came up blank if I recall.


    ~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

  10. #270
    Ming Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lxdude View Post
    . . . what are we supposed to do? Avert our eyes whenever children are around?
    Funny you should say that.

    On the train home, the carriage I was in was packed full, so I stood in the area by the exit door. In there were four young lads, probably about 12 years old. I was feeling so miserable, sick and with all self-confidence and street photography future lying in tatters, that I daren't face their approximate direction for even a second.

    I spent the entire 35 minute journey looking out the window.

    They probably thought I was weird.
    Last edited by Ming Rider; 07-11-2013 at 11:32 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    "All I ask for is an M5 with a fast lens, a roll of HP5 and a street to shoot her by."

    StreetPhotographyBlog



 

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