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  1. #151
    Maris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    (The Platonic original of a photograph)
    [1] What distinguishes photography from painting, I submit, is *solely* the process; it's possible for a technically skilled painter to make a viewer say "wait, is that a photo?", or an inventive photo printer to make a viewer say "wait, is that a painting?", which by itself almost proves that you can't really distinguish the two media purely on viewable characteristics of the image.The two certainly speak the same language between the creator and the viewer, and what can be said about one in terms of image and communication can be equally said about the other. Discuss?
    Yes, at the naive level of "looks like means same as" paintings and photographs can be contrived to resemble each other. But mere resemblance is the shallowest and most superficial way of looking at pictures and I reckon all images that don't evaporate somewhere between the eye and the memory carry richer connotations. And these connotations delight and reward the viewer who takes the trouble (or has the brains) to understand the creative, technical, and aesthetic strategies of the picture maker.
    Photography, the word itself, invented and defined by its author Sir John.F.W.Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society, Somerset House, London. Quote "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..". unquote.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Because I don't feel it is an ethical development of photographic technology. .
    I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that digital photography is somehow unethical?
    Kick his ass, Sea Bass!

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinesh View Post
    I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that digital photography is somehow unethical?
    Not at all, but I am suggesting some aspects of the commercialisation of digital photography are.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Not at all, but I am suggesting some aspects of the commercialisation of digital photography are.
    Absolutely agreed.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  5. #155
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    I insisted from the beginning we should use some other word for digital, like maybe the original "imaging." I got into a weird exchange on LFPF about that where someone basically dared me to contact some war (digital) photographer and tell him he wasn't a real photographer, which of course is not what I ever meant or implied. I didn't mean he wasn't "real" or his work wasn't valuable or legitimate. I meant that it was inherently something else.

    Others point out that photography means something like "painting with light" and you're still doing that. Yeahyeah, but it's still something else - not necessarily worse but different.

    I seem to be a voice in the wilderness aside from maybe here on APUG though.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I insisted from the beginning we should use some other word for digital, like maybe the original "imaging." I got into a weird exchange on LFPF about that where someone basically dared me to contact some war (digital) photographer and tell him he wasn't a real photographer, which of course is not what I ever meant or implied. I didn't mean he wasn't "real" or his work wasn't valuable or legitimate. I meant that it was inherently something else.

    Others point out that photography means something like "painting with light" and you're still doing that. Yeahyeah, but it's still something else - not necessarily worse but different.

    I seem to be a voice in the wilderness aside from maybe here on APUG though.
    I'll bet 19th century painters said the same thing about the first photographs.
    WYSIWYG - At least that's my goal.

    Portfolio-http://apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=25518

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    When digital photography appeared I had no problem with it and found it a great addition to analogue to further the boundaries of what could be achieved. The problem I had was when it was hijacked by marketing men to make money and put digital as a technological replacement over film.
    But to 90% of professional photographers, portrait, commercial, product, fashion, forensic, photojournalism, etc it DID replace analog.

    And to 95% of amateur photographers it DID replace analog.

    It wasn't hijacked by marketers, the marketers worked for the companies that invented/developed the medium.

    And it did replace analog for very good reasons, or all these pros would not be using it. They weren't sold a bill of goods, the advantages were and are very real.

    Now you can argue that it's for better or for worse but nobody was hoodwinked into this conversion. I converted very late in the game for the main reason I wasn't convinced yet that the materials were archival, now I am.

    And nobody is denying its not a cash cow for corporations but if the benefits were not there, the conversion would not have followed.

    I know, everyone has a story of someone who "went back" but one in a million is not a trend, it's just a personal choice.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg View Post
    I'll bet 19th century painters said the same thing about the first photographs.
    Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Photography was NEVER called "painting" as far as I am aware (other than by the linguistic meaning of the term) so why would painters "say the same thing?"

    I'm just saying that the two media are sufficiently different they should be CALLED different arts, just as painting is not the same as sculpture, though a better analogy might be watercolors versus oils or such - both are painting but they are definitely not the same art form.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Cole View Post
    I insisted from the beginning we should use some other word for digital, like maybe the original "imaging." I got into a weird exchange on LFPF about that where someone basically dared me to contact some war (digital) photographer and tell him he wasn't a real photographer, which of course is not what I ever meant or implied. I didn't mean he wasn't "real" or his work wasn't valuable or legitimate. I meant that it was inherently something else.

    Others point out that photography means something like "painting with light" and you're still doing that. Yeahyeah, but it's still something else - not necessarily worse but different.

    I seem to be a voice in the wilderness aside from maybe here on APUG though.
    I don't disagree that it should have different terminology but language rarely seems to work that way. The word photography, even before digital had a lot of avenues for pursuit. A photograph had a lot of different processes and still ended up in someone's hand as a photograph.

    The insipid giclee floated around for a while, not sure if its still here or not, but galleries used to specify silver halide vs giclee or platinum. But I agree different terminology could be helpful.

    I still say I'm going for a jacuzzi, and someone else will say you mean go sit in the hot tub, and someone will correct them and say no a hot tub was that round wooden barrel thing. You mean you're going to sit in your spa. And I say no, a spa is where women go when their husbands go golfing ........whatever.

    I'll be in the water trough thing with the bubbles.
    Last edited by blansky; 08-26-2013 at 07:40 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  10. #160
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    Yeah, giclee is still around. My art loving wife asked me what it meant and I think was a little disappointed when I explained it was just high-brow speak for "ink jet."

    Not that ink jet prints can't be really good - I've seen some - but it's still an ink jet. Dressing it up in pretentious French doesn't change anything but make the one doing the labeling look pretentious if not downright silly, IMHO.



 

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