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  1. #211
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    It's a slippery slope.

    [...]

    I'm confused as to whether Ken views digital/analog as different processes, or different media entirely.
    It is??

    Dunking CCDs into D-76 to extract images...???

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  2. #212

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    Apologies I edited my previous post (although the jist is the same). I don't want to get anyone too aggravated (at least not today) so I should probably stop here and admit my failure in this thread . Clearly you can't get much out of a CCD by dunking it in D-76, or even Pyro.

  3. #213
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    This is becoming nonsensical.
    K.S. Klain

  4. #214
    Klainmeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Apologies I edited my previous post (although the jist is the same). I don't want to get anyone too aggravated (at least not today) so I should probably stop here and admit my failure in this thread . Clearly you can't get much out of a CCD by dunking it D-76, or even Pyro.
    Saddly, since the chip is mostly silica and holds part of a charge from the photon, I bet one could if they spent enough time and money on it.
    K.S. Klain

  5. #215
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Would HCB have used a digital camera if available in his time? Almost certainly. I prefer to use film, even in this digital age, but the image however produced and printed is what people judge. Although images produced by historic techniques still have their place in the world of art.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  6. #216
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klainmeister View Post
    This is becoming nonsensical.
    Oh God yes. That's the most 'sensical' thing I've read in the last hundred posts.

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    If photography is not about the subject then why don't blind people make more photographs for other blind people?
    For all I know they do (what was that movie about a blind photographer?), but stipulating that photography enjoys little popularity among the blind, it might be because it communicates visually---which is not at all the same as being "about the subject".

    In Barthes's terms, I think you're saying "it's all about the studium" and neglecting the punctum. I'm not nearly as French as he was, so I just think you're giving too much weight to photos as representations of things, and not enough to photos as visual objects in their own right. (That's "too much" and "not enough" for the purposes of making generalities about the medium, rather than for your own work and enjoyment.)

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  8. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    That's what confused me. On PAGE 14 comment 135 he states that vive la difference and he gets it. Different people have different goals.

    Then on PAGE 15 comment 142 he's back at it. Talking about one having "authenticity".
    I'm confused by that shift too, but I get the feeling he doesn't mean "authenticity" to be as value-loaded a concept as it sounds to me (or I guess you). I get the "provenance" framing, but I'm not sure about the "authenticity" framing, which seems all tied up with photos being a way to document Truth.

    On the one hand, I don't think that the ability to document Truth is a particularly important trait of a medium one way or another (outside a few specialized uses), and on the other, I don't buy Ken's conviction that the film/digital divide aligns with the presence/absence of that ability.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewDunn View Post
    I think this thread has become an outlet for a harmless argument that won't go quietly into the good night because it is the very process of arguing (as opposed to the actual intellectual point of the argument) that has become fulfilling. Does anyone in this thread *honestly* care whether someone on the internet whose name you do not know and whom you will never meet in real life think that what you do is or is not photography? If so, I might suggest you have more significant problems that you need to attend to.

    This is about getting frustration and anxiety out in an anonymous way and without consequence. You can't (or at least shouldn't) kick the dog or beat your kids or your wife, but hey, yelling on the internet...sure.
    Who's yelling? I thought we were having a pretty interesting discussion about different aspects of photography, sensu lato, and which ones are important to different people and how much they have to do with specific media and processes. I don't think I'd even say "argument".

    If this thread is anyone's substitute for kicking the dog, that would be a pretty mild kick or a pretty sensitive dog.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  10. #220
    Roger Cole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    Would HCB have used a digital camera if available in his time? Almost certainly. I prefer to use film, even in this digital age, but the image however produced and printed is what people judge. Although images produced by historic techniques still have their place in the world of art.
    I've no doubt HCB would have used digital. He hated the darkroom and never did his own printing after he could pay someone else to do it, and digital would have enabled him to shoot in lower light, with faster shutter speeds, maybe autofocus might have helped him do his work "only more so" in some cases.

    Ansel was interested in the future and wondered what digital versions of his images would look like and almost certainly would have used it. Whether he moved completely to it would be a very different question from HCB, I think.

    Weston - somehow I doubt it but it's an academic question.



 

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