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  1. #221
    Marvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chip j View Post
    Thanks to Him, I have a N75 and a N80, which are my favorite cameras for shooting, ever.
    I have 2 each of these great cameras!

  2. #222
    Chris Lange's Avatar
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    there's not much point in debating what the dead "masters" of photography would have done if they were living today, because if they were living today their collective experiences would have been different and they, more probably than not, would be different people. Do not seek validity in a medium because a certain someone used it, seek validity in a medium because it makes sense to you. Who gives a fuck if Avedon used a Rollei, or Cartier-Bresson used a Leica, or if Peter Lindbergh used Plus-X. If you think these people are great photographers because of what materials they had available, you are insulting their legacy, as well as displaying a completely inept perception of every aspect of photography.

    If only I had a Super Ikonta B and a box of Portriga Rapid (with cadmium, naturally), then I could REALLY show those bastards from the 1950s what's what.

    Seriously? That shit is weak.

    We should take all the time that we've spent reading this mostly pointless thread and spend double that making photographs with whatever equipment is closest at hand, and not wondering if the ghost of Andre Kertesz is judging us for not using his preferred brand of film.

    Smoking Gauloises to look French doesn't make you French, it just makes you look pretentious.
    Last edited by Chris Lange; 08-27-2013 at 08:36 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  3. #223
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    Smoking Gauloises to look French doesn't make you French, it just makes pretentious.
    Actually, I think it just makes you smell really bad.

    I agree with APUG Ken that there are differences and that the differences matter to me.

    But whether or not something matters is different than whether or not it is valuable.

    The least persuasive argument in favour of any process is one that says essentially that it is "just as good" as another process.

    And as far as I am concerned anyone who thinks that it is only the subject and content of a photograph that matters is probably just looking at photographs on computer screens, telephones, televisions, magazine pages or maybe 4x6 prints from the drugstore.
    Last edited by MattKing; 08-27-2013 at 09:06 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #224
    jnanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    A) Anyone that editions their work at 50 is a dumbass.
    what are they supposed to edition their work at ?

  5. #225
    jnanian's Avatar
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    i am really at a loss seeing how a film - negative makes something "authentic"
    but i understand it is the basis of what some versions of chemical photography are based on ...

  6. #226
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Does it matter what tools get it from scene to wall?
    It can. It depends on what one wants. If I were rich, I'd love to commission a painter to produce family portraits. I know, not the same thing, but for some people it does matter, and it is valid to them.

    My brother had a photographer use film at his wedding (though ti was more common when he married). He made sure he used B&W for some photos - it mattered to him and his wife. I know other people who would pass on a wedding photographer if any sort of B&W print was even suggested. it doesn't matter how good it looks or what "feel" it produces - different things matter to different people.

    Quote Originally Posted by MatthewDunn View Post
    I was just thinking that this thread didn't have enough petty bickering as it is and that we needed to start throwing innocent people under the bus to make our point...
    I know what you mean... I'm beginning to feel like I'm at work.

    So, am I the only one paying attention to people's style in this "argument" (rather, debate) and using it when interpreting their posts in other threads, especially the ones where their comments are mostly contrary?
    (Damn, there doesn't seem to be a flame-shield smiley.)
    Truzi

  7. #227
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    So, am I the only one paying attention to people's style in this "argument" (rather, debate) and using it when interpreting their posts in other threads, especially the ones where their comments are mostly contrary?

    (Damn, there doesn't seem to be a flame-shield smiley.)
    Whether that's me or someone else you are referring to, regardless of their position or opinion I would cut them some slack.

    People engaging in intense debate often adjust their positions because they learn something new, or someone else said something that clarified a certain facet of the issue in their thoughts, or they meant to say the same thing as they said earlier not realizing they actually didn't, or they even just momentarily drifted mentally and forgot.

    Fortunately these discussions are really all in fun, even though they can get heated (albeit heated at a distance). Luckily this is not a court of law. And the death penalty is not in play here.



    Ken
    "When making a portrait, my approach is quite the same as when I am portraying a rock. I do not wish to impose my personality upon the sitter, but, keeping myself open to receive reactions from his own special ego, record this with nothing added: except of course when I am working professionally, when money enters in,—then for a price, I become a liar..."

    — Edward Weston, Daybooks, Vol. II, February 2, 1932

  8. #228
    Chris Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    what are they supposed to edition their work at ?
    50 is a huge edition for any piece of art. 25 is still quite sizable. Unless you are a major figure in the art world who would command large prices even from an edition of 100 prints, it doesn't make sense from a value perspective to create such an edition. 10-15 is a far more sensible figure for any piece that exceeds 16x20". I am discussing this from a business/economics vantage-point however. Very little of what I have said in this thread is of any use outside of the context of that of a working artist who subsists on their art. To those of you who do photography simply because it is enjoyable and challenging, then you are free to work in whatever manner you wish, with whatever tools you wish...which is a beautiful thing.

    Those of us with student loans who are trying to eke out a living without having to sling booze (for others, at least) have to consider the intrinsic value of our work from a multi-faceted perspective, however the fact that I use a film camera does not make my work more valuable. If this were the case then surely Richard Prince's xeroxed shit wouldn't sell for millions of dollars.
    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  9. #229
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    That depends on each individual, and whether any of the obvious differences between the two tool sets matter to them.

    For example...

    If 'blansky' manages to tame the newborn and creates a stunningly insightful portrait, Mom isn't going care how that scene made it to her wall. As far as she's concerned, she's thrilled and 'blansky' is a freakin' genius.

    However, if Ken has finally decided to spend $10,000* to buy that vintage Ansel Adams Clearing Winter Storm that he always wanted, it's probably going to make a BIG difference to him how that scene made it to his wall. The process differences between the hand-made-by-Ansel-in-1980 version and a negative-scan-and-inkjet-in-2013 version could not be more meaningful.

    In the first example, process could not be more irrelevant. In the second example, process could not be more critical. But in both examples, the core differences between the two photographic processes do still exist. That's a fact that is not open to interpretation.

    As noted earlier, one does not dunk CCDs into D-76 in order to extract images...

    Ken

    * or whatever, I didn't actually Google it...
    There are two reasons that I see for the value of Clearing Winter Storm.

    One is the reasons is the image, the other is the Adams mystique.

    Adams, like other successful artists, marketers, hucksters; sold "us" on his process. (As evidence I offer his books.) Silver gelatin printing is only important in the market valuation of clearing winter storm because "that's how Ansel did it", its how the original was made. Anything else would be "a fake".

    Elliot Erwitt and Steve McCurry don't need to worry as much about the exact how of processing as the Adams estate might.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #230
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Fortunately these discussions are really all in fun, even though they can get heated (albeit heated at a distance).
    Yep
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin



 

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