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  1. #231
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Fortunately these discussions are really all in fun, even though they can get heated (albeit heated at a distance).
    Yep
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  2. #232
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Whether that's me or someone else you are referring to, regardless of their position or opinion I would cut them some slack.

    People engaging in intense debate often adjust their positions because they learn something new, or someone else said something that clarified a certain facet of the issue in their thoughts, or they meant to say the same thing as they said earlier not realizing they actually didn't, or they even just momentarily drifted mentally and forgot.

    Fortunately these discussions are really all in fun, even though they can get heated (albeit heated at a distance). Luckily this is not a court of law. And the death penalty is not in play here.



    Ken
    I posted that I couldn't find a flame-shield smiley, so the latter half of my post was a bit sarcastic. I personally love to debate. Some things, though, seem to get a little nasty at times (which can happen) so it was more of a general comment and not specifically aimed at anyone in particular. When I'm debating someone, I often miss the fact that there may be spectators who may not take things as the debaters intend.

    Case in point: My post was aimed at some of the more nasty comments I've read, not at apparent/seeming inconsistencies or pointing them out. I do that all the time in debates & arguments. The contrary comment was not contrary to themselves, but contrary to what others say, and not occasional, but as a matter of habit. (Think Argument Clinic.)
    So, I should have been more careful (or verbose, but I tend to be verbose enough as it is).

    Being online, instead of in person, robs us of voice tone, non-verbal cues, and the ability to quickly clarify a position (or disposition) to a spectator.
    Last edited by Truzi; 08-27-2013 at 11:28 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Truzi

  3. #233
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    There are two reasons that I see for the value of Clearing Winter Storm.

    One is the reasons is the image, the other is the Adams mystique.

    Adams, like other successful artists, marketers, hucksters; sold "us" on his process. (As evidence I offer his books.) Silver gelatin printing is only important in the market valuation of clearing winter storm because "that's how Ansel did it", its how the original was made. Anything else would be "a fake".

    Elliot Erwitt and Steve McCurry don't need to worry as much about the exact how of processing as the Adams estate might.
    All possibly true, except that...

    My choice of AA as the example was solely to illustrate the fact that, while the differences between the two imaging processes are concrete and real, those differences mean different things to different people. AA was just a convenient choice because everyone at least recognizes the reference.

    In other words, it does matter to some "what tools get it from scene to wall."

    Even though others could validly care less.

    That was the original point of yours I was answering.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  4. #234
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    I personally love to debate. Some things, though, seem to get a little nasty at times...
    Heh, heh...

    Ever ventured here?

    It's the vestigial remnants of the original Usenet discussion boards. The death penalty is not only in play, but is unjustly imposed as often as they can get away with. Think of yourself as a small-timer, then read my signature line below.

    And anyone even uttering the word moderation is at the top of the hit list.



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    50 is a huge edition for any piece of art. 25 is still quite sizable. Unless you are a major figure in the art world who would command large prices even from an edition of 100 prints, it doesn't make sense from a value perspective to create such an edition. 10-15 is a far more sensible figure for any piece that exceeds 16x20". I am discussing this from a business/economics vantage-point however. Very little of what I have said in this thread is of any use outside of the context of that of a working artist who subsists on their art. To those of you who do photography simply because it is enjoyable and challenging, then you are free to work in whatever manner you wish, with whatever tools you wish...which is a beautiful thing.

    Those of us with student loans who are trying to eke out a living without having to sling booze (for others, at least) have to consider the intrinsic value of our work from a multi-faceted perspective, however the fact that I use a film camera does not make my work more valuable. If this were the case then surely Richard Prince's xeroxed shit wouldn't sell for millions of dollars.
    thanks chris, total agreement with you ..
    but the french people i know all smoke lucky's.

  6. #236
    Chris Lange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    thanks chris, total agreement with you ..
    but the french people i know all smoke lucky's.
    Precisely why the dopes who parade around with them look pretentious!

    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  7. #237
    MartinCrabtree's Avatar
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    However the point is (was) "is film photography gaining in popularity?" Well???

  8. #238
    Chris Lange's Avatar
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    In a nutshell...yes.

    I know tons of young people that are at least interested in trying it, and half again as many that regularly shoot film.
    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  9. #239

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    I went for a walk yesterday and I saw an Agfa Precisa film box on the floor. Someone else shoots film in this tiny village - 100% increase in popularity!
    Steve.

  10. #240
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    However the point is (was) "is film photography gaining in popularity?" Well???
    Yeah, since starting this thread and poking about here and there, I've come to the conclusion that it very well may be. In short, I think the "digital" (in general, not only photography) peak of our digital, online life is passing and the general public is getting tired of playing with computerized crap because they have to do so at work all day, many being sat on their ass in a chair and all but chained to the damn thing.

    A marketing opportunity is passing before us.

    My choice of AA as the example was solely to illustrate the fact that, while the differences between the two imaging processes are concrete and real, those differences mean different things to different people. (snip)

    In other words, it does matter to some "what tools get it from scene to wall."
    If I was spending $10,000 on a print of "Clearing Winter Storm," it damn well would matter what process was used to get it from scene to wall. I don't give a crap if Ansel came back out of his grave, scanned, "photoshopped" and clicked the damn print button himself - it's just a freakin' inkjet copy of it. A thousand more could be made just like it, all ISO9000 certified to be exactly the same as only a machine could do.

    Each wet printed print of that negative that Ansel ever made shows "the hand of the maker" in some way and is unique. It is a uniquely interpreted presentation of the scene in front of his camera at the time and his thoughts on how to show that scene.

    And that thought might be core to a growing popularity of film.
    Last edited by kb3lms; 08-28-2013 at 11:50 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: finished my thought.
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.



 

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