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  1. #21
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Am I the only one here who makes their living elsewhere, so that we can sustain our passion of being photographers/artists?
    No, as you've probably read, I do something else entirely. I'm not an artist. I'm a weekend photographic hacker. But it's that something else that I do that allows me to sustain my hacking, and is a good part of the reason I can continue to pursue it. Half of my hacking is enabled by that something else. And the other half is therapy enabling survival of that something else.

    It's a strange symbiosis.

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  2. #22
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    Thanks for the "brilliant" comment but believe me, it is extreme hyperbole.

    My comment was not about art but about ART.

    What you do is art. ART is the phenomena that happens when the middlemen/women appear on the scene to help in the creation, marketing and distribution of art.

    Unfortunately artists are rarely good at commerce, therein lies the vacuum.
    About the hyperbole... You seem to have a clarity in your thinking, which I'm sure more than I appreciate. But enough of that.

    Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean now.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  3. #23
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    John Seed: I Don't Deconstruct

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    No, as you've probably read, I do something else entirely. I'm not an artist. I'm a weekend photographic hacker. But it's that something else that I do that allows me to sustain my hacking, and is a good part of the reason I can continue to pursue it. Half of my hacking is enabled by that something else. And the other half is therapy enabling survival of that something else.

    It's a strange symbiosis.

    Ken
    Hacker... That's pretty much how I feel too, and I much prefer being called 'photographer', or 'darkroom printer', than 'artist'.

    Glad you're able to enjoy your hobby, and to have a passion.
    I sometimes call photography my 'insanity asylum', because of how it helps relieve stress from the rest of my life. Am I deconstructing the reasons for being a photographer now?
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  4. #24

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    I'm suspicious of those who avoid analysis. I smell puppies and flowers that way. The problem isn't deconstruction, it's the chumps who've cornered the market in it.

  5. #25
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    My comment was not about art but about ART.
    That's how I read it, an excellent distinction.

  6. #26
    Shawn Dougherty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    I'm suspicious of those who avoid analysis. I smell puppies and flowers that way. The problem isn't deconstruction, it's the chumps who've cornered the market in it.
    I am certainly not against looking for meaning in or otherwise analyzing art. Nor am I against using art as a way of expressing an idea. But when the idea becomes more important than the art object I begin to loose interest.

  7. #27
    winger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    No, as you've probably read, I do something else entirely. I'm not an artist. I'm a weekend photographic hacker. But it's that something else that I do that allows me to sustain my hacking, and is a good part of the reason I can continue to pursue it. Half of my hacking is enabled by that something else. And the other half is therapy enabling survival of that something else.

    It's a strange symbiosis.

    Ken
    When I was doing forensics, this was exactly me as well. Photography and working in the darkroom kept me sane enough to keep doing that which paid for the film, paper, and chemicals. Now that my "day job" is not for pay (stay at home mom), I think I need the de-stressing part even more, oddly enough.

    As for the original article, I totally agree with him. I've seen it in action even in a small museum's photo class. Before I had my own darkroom, I took classes at a museum school to gain access to their darkroom. Near the start of the second or third semester, I had a different instructor than the first class and we took a tour of the galleries upstairs (exhibit of current and former instructors' works). The new instructor was giving a very artspeak description of a photo by the first instructor and how he'd supposedly been thinking about the existentialism, blah, blah, etc... In the class before, the first instructor had shown us that very print and said he took it because he liked the light and needed to finish the roll of film so he could get the other shots. He printed it because he still liked the light and thought the contrast was good, plus, he said, he could print it very easily, no major burning and dodging. So the later episode in the gallery with the other instructor and the artspeak just sorta kickstarted my cynicism for ART and I decided to just do what I like how I want to and not worry about whether I was "saying something" with my images other than that it was a decent looking scene that I'd decided to capture on film.

  8. #28

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    There isn't a single photographer I admire who isn't able to discuss their work lucidly and in context. The only exception are those who obsessively document a certain aspect of life without knowing why. They provide a valuable historical resource. I have yet to see anyone who says 'art, schmart' and can take a great photograph.

  9. #29

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    while i am not fluent in artspeak i can appreciate it,
    just like i appreciate genres of photography i don't "practice"
    neither really bother me too much ...
    ask me how ..

  10. #30
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    I think you should be able to both think and photograph analytically. You should have an idea of what you want to photograph and why you photograph it the way you do, and you should be able to articulate that idea. That said, if it requires ten sentences full of opaque, polysyllabic latinate words to articulate your vision, you need to sit down and read "Politics and the English Language" by George Orwell, and quite possibly get smacked upside the head with a 50 lb. Unix manual. Own your vision in your own terms, don't allow it to be couched in inauthentic language that only satisfies an academic audience who has decided that aesthetics have no place in art.

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