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  1. #31
    clayne's Avatar
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    Amazing Read in The Guardian

    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    I guess I see what I do (programming/analytics/bi) as art and science.

    My idol btw one'a my professors declared that programming is 50% science and 50% art).....

    Just remember back in the day, mainframe time was hundreds of dollars an hour....a computer these days is free (eg library)....a 8x10 = mainframe and Nikon Dx = library PC.....

    Just tools....

    Someone can write some great code in vi or notepad at the library......
    Ah but one important point you leave out in the analogy: quality of code. The ultimate equalizers != net higher quality of code. That's the entire point I'm making.

    You can hand cameras and computers to monkeys, you know what happens after that.

    Update: I see you did address this in your later post but I believe if we don't "address" better we're just part of the problem in the race to the bottom. To mix analogies, would you like to see all photographers replaced with the equivalent of 3rd world contractors? That may be what the possibilities entail but I can surely have a problem with that because the NET outcome is worse.
    Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance.

    http://www.flickr.com/kediwah

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by clayne View Post
    Ah but one important point you leave out in the analogy: quality of code. The ultimate equalizers != net higher quality of code. That's the entire point I'm making.

    You can hand cameras and computers to monkeys, you know what happens after that.
    sure ... they take 1.000,000 exposures and get a national geographic cover shot !

  3. #33
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zsas View Post
    My idol btw one'a my professors declared that programming is 50% science and 50% art).....
    Alfred Stieglitz once said that "Art is the affirmation of Life."

    Tough to see that affirmation extended to include, say, hardcore C++. Or even softcore Web environments. Object orientation as a paradigm is by definition and design an approach to simulating Life via abstraction. More often than not in modern usage, such abstraction debases Life rather than affirms it.

    Or to put it more succinctly...

    Programming is NOT an affirmation of Life. It's whole purpose is to fake Life. For profit. Your professor only told you that to make you feel better about working 80-hour weeks for the next 50 years.

    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  4. #34
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    Programming is like theoretical mathematics.

    Quality requires elegance
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  5. #35
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quality requires either time or money.

    Remember? Pick any two...



    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  6. #36

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    smash the looms! smash them!

  7. #37
    zsas's Avatar
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    Geeezzzzeeeee Ken that's a pretty grim perspective. Fwiw, I do analytics/BI/bigdata/stats....my code merely try's to "explain the world", not clone or "fake life"......

    My point is that those that do what I do, like my professor said, are combining science/art.....same could be said for photography, and therefore, one shouldn't create articles like the Guardian piece in question, and call out discrete populations of people and declare them X or Y....that is polarizing-writing.....the same garbage that fills these new "news" shows all over cable....

    Last, judging what is quality....well, we do it every day....do it local though (ie wow that artist did a good job, or that programmer did a good job, or that iPhone lightmeter app called Foo-Meter is a piece a junk), not all people who use X tool are Y....that folks, is blanket-polarizing-generalizations....that just doesn't make anyone feel good about themselves (both parties)....I happily live in both worlds....I use the tools to communicate and create meaning, be it art, science or a combination of thereof...
    Last edited by zsas; 08-31-2013 at 07:16 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Andy

  8. #38
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    Interesting article. A bit of hyperbole. A lot of death.

    With any great innovation comes change and in the case of computer based tech EVERYTHING changed.

    Much like the printing press, the industrial revolution, and the advent of first railway travel, then air travel.

    Change is a bitch.

    A good analogy to analog photography is the changes that Swiss watch companies went through with the mass migration to quartz watches in the 80s. Many, many companies went broke.

    But essentially an antiquated technology now flourishes for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with reason.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  9. #39
    zsas's Avatar
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    ^good points Blanksy. Same could be said for IBM & DEC* in the 80's and 90's with the switch from mainframes/minicomputers to server/LAN model.....

    This stuff is indemic of change/innovation and hopefully it spurs good things to occur....

    We all know that with broader access to tools/distribution that separating wheat/chaff is possibly harder

    I am sure this same debate proliferated back in Gutenberg's day....

    Loved the looms comment pdeeh

    *footnote - DEC couldn't transition fast enough, IBM did, getting rid of manufacturing and is now a services company (consulting, middleware....)
    Andy

  10. #40
    Pioneer's Avatar
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    It was a very sad day for whip manufacturers when Henry Ford set up his assembly line.

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