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  1. #51
    Truzi's Avatar
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    +1, especially the last graph.
    Truzi

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    As the Japanese did in the past the Chinese are only getting their foot in the door at the moment in the cheap end of the market, but they aren't going to be satisfied with that for long they will soon be after the quality and luxury end of the market.
    They made lots of Pentax K1000 in Hong Kong from 78 and then mainland Ch holding down production costs until piece parts became uneconomic by 97. Neither the US nor UK had comparable in same interval?

    'only getting' seems inaccurate they are way ahead already, the UK shipping container storage areas are wall to wall Ch.

    They are already the worlds 2nd largest economy somebody is buying a lotta Ch goods.

    NSA seem to be worried about their penetration into the communications sectors..,

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Everyone who bemoans the loss of a favorite product should read John Galsworthy's short story Quality. I read it in high school and it made a lasting impression on me. Whenever you use a cheap substitute you are helping to kill off the quality product. There are many examples; x-ray film instead of LF film, cheap surveillance film instead of regular film, etc. In today's market you may not only be killing off the quality product but all products of that particular type.
    Amen to that!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #54
    MartinCrabtree's Avatar
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    Can someone show me where these "quality Chinese products " are? Over the past decade I've had extensive experience with Chinese products and they are poor from concept to execution of the final product. Are you assuming they can make good product or do you have experience with them? Not trying to pick a fight it's just my experience shows no interest in quality,originality or evolution of product/manufacturing. Poor materials,lousy fit and finish,near zero quality control with non-existent customer support other than parts sales that are no more than putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCrabtree View Post
    Can someone show me where these "quality Chinese products " are? Over the past decade I've had extensive experience with Chinese products and they are poor from concept to execution of the final product. Are you assuming they can make good product or do you have experience with them? Not trying to pick a fight it's just my experience shows no interest in quality,originality or evolution of product/manufacturing. Poor materials,lousy fit and finish,near zero quality control with non-existent customer support other than parts sales that are no more than putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.
    I got a Alpha industrys ( of Knoxville Ten. ) M65 field jacket for Christmas that they supply to the U.S military that's made in China, and the quality is superb .
    Ben

  6. #56
    rdg
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdeeh View Post
    my nearest "local photographic distributor" is about 100 miles away; There are a only a large handful of "real" shops left from which to buy film or other photo materials in the UK, and I expect most of those are doing most of their business online.

    The chain is "gutted" already.
    (pdeeh I am not intending on making this out to only you but you have given an example that I can use.)

    So then I am assuming that you travel the 100 miles each way every so often. Even if that store is doing mail order or selling over the Internet you then should be supporting that retailer with their physically accessible location. A 200 mile round trip is a day, and it gives you a chance to see other things, or do other things, as well.

    There is a real advantage to walking into a retailer that knows their products. They can help you with questions and problems and offer suggestions. It is their best interest to keep up with what is going on within the industry and they have contacts that you will never have, unless you are within the distribution network as well, so they hear things before you will.

    A good working relationship with a retailer means that they know what you are interested in and what you might want to hear about. And a good working relationship means that when you want to order something that the retailer usually does not carry there is a greater chance that they will order it in for you. Being able to go back when there is something wrong with a product that you purchased involves a lot less hassle than going through a mail order or Internet retailer. But that working relationship only happens when you go into their store and purchase their retail products and talk with them. It does not matter that a great deal, or even most, of their business is being done online but at least they have a face that they can place with a name of one of their clients when you walk in on a regular basis.

    The original post bemoaned those that purchased cheap products rather than paying for the higher quality products from some major manufacturers. But at no point did anyone claim that going to the major Internet and mail order stores aslo decimated and destroyed the local distribution network. If anything the local network is more important that the major manufacturers because that is where people are going to encounter the products first.

    Walking into a One Hour Photofinishing store would only tell me about a small selection of 35mm films, probably only C-41 Colour Negative films, and never inform me about Black and White, although I would probably know they had existed looking at older photographs, or slide films. There is no way that walking into a One Hour photofinishing store that I would ever have considered the potential to develop my own films and to print them out onto paper. And to learn that there were different formats for films would also never happen.

    On the other hand walking into a Photography retailer that will sell me a whole range of films, in a variety of formats, the chemicals and equipment to process them and the equipment and supplies to print them out will tell any new comer that there is a lot more potential to photography than Kodak's early attitude that when you take a picture they would take care of everything else.

    For people who have never used anything but digital photography coming to sites like APUG it is imperative that we ensure the viability of local photography retailers carrying film based products and chemicals to process them with. And having a few large store in major urban centers scattered around the globe, a long way from most people, is not going to do it. Otherwise those people will never know that there is anything except digital photography available today.

    So, if it is imperative that I support companies like Kodak or Ilford by purchasing their photographic products, as opposed to cheaper alternatives not intended for general photography, then it should also be imperative that I support my local, or closest if within a good drive, photography retailer who will carry a variety of photographic products and chemistry. And it should also be required that I support my local photography labs as well. If purchasing locally, and 100 miles can still be considered local for some, means that it is more expensive then that is the price that I have to pay to support a local retail environment and all of the benefits that come with it.

    Richard
    Last edited by rdg; 01-24-2014 at 06:47 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: wrong word so corrected

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCrabtree View Post
    Can someone show me where these "quality Chinese products " are? Over the past decade I've had extensive experience with Chinese products and they are poor from concept to execution of the final product. Are you assuming they can make good product or do you have experience with them? Not trying to pick a fight it's just my experience shows no interest in quality,originality or evolution of product/manufacturing. Poor materials,lousy fit and finish,near zero quality control with non-existent customer support other than parts sales that are no more than putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.
    iPads, iPhones iMacs seem pretty decent.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  8. #58
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    There are many U.S. companies that have their products produced in China. Some products are good, others are not. Since these items are manufactured on contract, the companies must insist on quality control (or not). So, when a given company insists on high quality, and quantifies it (such as Blansky's examples, and also some power tool companies) the Chinese manufacturers certainly can deliver - though it will cost more. For some U.S. companies (and for some Chinese brands) price is more important than quality.
    Truzi

  9. #59
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    The positive part of cheaper foreign made products is that lower prices keep up our standard of living. Can you imagine the price of camera equipment if everything was made here?

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    The positive part of cheaper foreign made products is that lower prices keep up our standard of living. Can you imagine the price of camera equipment if everything was made here?
    In related news, I think I recall a news tidbit yesterday that Cuomo of New York State has considered the possibility of lowering State of New York corporate tax rates. And since historically, much of photography has been manufactured there, perhaps there could be some sort of realization going on there as to what kind of thinking has chased so much manufacturing to China. Though I'm not inclined to hold my breath.
    China buys American debt. And supply is more abundant than ever.
    I'm a printer of labels for welding supplies. My biggest customer imports their goods from China. I print labeling for the items that come un-packaged in bulk and they packaged here. On the goods that ARE packaged in China, I'm blown away by the quality of the printing. It's gorgeous. My best work is second-rate in comparison.

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