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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Everyone who bemoans the loss of a favorite product should read John Galsworthy's short story Quality. I read it in high school and it made a lasting impression on me. Whenever you use a cheap substitute you are helping to kill off the quality product. There are many examples; x-ray film instead of LF film, cheap surveillance film instead of regular film, etc. In today's market you may not only be killing off the quality product but all products of that particular type.
    This is denial the Xray film and the surveillance film are both premium and expensive medium volume pro films.
    The reason they are remaindered and now cheap is their market has vanished their users have gone to digital...
    The next step 'helping to kill off' is very marginal the semi pro and pro still camera users have only ever been a small % of film production from a few years after Eastmann went to film.
    Cine and photo recconance have had a large %.
    The other large % user grannies and daddies taking photos of kids, using point and shoot cameras, films with two Christmas trees and a bikini... they now have phones with cameras and tablets.
    Im advised by an insider that no more than a decade ago London had many 24/7 C41 labs but never had a 24/7 mono lab.
    The big users have all gone digital Greshams law applies, ie bad currency chasing out good.
    We don't have the volume need to support the current production factories.
    The other problem is the manufacturer needs to comply with a succession of hazard laws so if they don't have a high predicted volume today they won't have a business case to borrow the money for tomorrow or the factories act people close them.
    Even the cine teams still using film have reduced their film usage! All the modern film cine cams have a digital sensor and real time video output the director rehearses normally without camera as in past does several runs with only video review and then a run with film and video. 2nd takes thing of past...
    Ive watched a Bollywood team do a succession of 1st takes, hoping to get a still of an annoyed director, did not happen.

  2. #62

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    I like to buy local. But in some cases that just isn't possible. If I could go to my local store and buy slide film, I would. The reality is my nearest photo store is 60 miles away in Springfield, and they just started carrying Agfa Precisa for 10USD/roll. Reality is if I want anything other than that in a slide film, I have to do mail order. If I want black & white infrared film, that's also mail order. If I want color negative film (which I shoot very little of), that I can and do buy local (the camera store 60 miles away). Ordinary black and white film is also bought locally. If I want 200 speed slide film that isn't yellow, I can't even order that from seller in my own country, not even from the same continent, I have to get that from Wittner in Germany.

    With prices for E6 films from Fuji the way they are and they keep going up, it may be time for me to lay in a good supply of those before it before they become unaffordable for me. I love the Provia and the Velvia 50, but they are getting so expensive. The Wittner Chrome 200D reminds me a lot of the Ektachrome 200 of the late 80s and is significantly less costly than the Fuji offerings... and its a full stop faster too.
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    iPads, iPhones iMacs seem pretty decent.
    I'll give you 40% on that. Apple is an American company with branches in China. Apple has many quality controls and the components are sourced form many countries,yes including China. American innovation and quality control that makes the Apple product. It shows that properly directed the Chinese worker is as good as any. Not Chinese business.


    Typed from an ancient (by computer standards) G5 iMac.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCrabtree View Post
    Can someone show me where these "quality Chinese products " are? Over the past decade I've had extensive experience with Chinese products and they are poor from concept to execution of the final product. Are you assuming they can make good product or do you have experience with them? Not trying to pick a fight it's just my experience shows no interest in quality,originality or evolution of product/manufacturing. Poor materials,lousy fit and finish,near zero quality control with non-existent customer support other than parts sales that are no more than putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound.
    Well I've no trouble with my jeans, flashlight, 3g dongles WiFi server or auto tyres. No failures so no idea about service/ support.
    They were all cheap as well.
    They are number two in the world.
    Not that long ago my jeans were made in USA.
    My IBM laptop was made in China as well.

  5. #65
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    We have even harder economic lessons to learn from China in the future, who are buying vast amounts of land businesses and resource worldwide, and as of this month the U.S. is $1.317 Trillion in debt to the Peoples Republic of China.
    Ben

  6. #66
    MartinCrabtree's Avatar
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    Aw hell benji we're not alone.

  7. #67
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinCrabtree View Post
    Aw hell benji we're not alone.
    No we're not mate, I read today that the queen is down to her last million pounds. China wouldn't have to go to war with us to bring us to our knees, they would just call in our debts.
    Ben

  8. #68

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    My 2 cents:

    We don't owe the film (or whatever other) companies shit.

    They're in the business to make money, not help us. They didn't share their profits or "tip" us when they were flourishing, so I don't see why we should chip in now that they're struggling.

    Natural selection is the best, most brutal but also honest, way to keep the best products in the market.

    Buy films and materials because they're the best, not because your local shops sells them, or they're made in US/UK, or (for whatever reason) you like the company that sells them.


    That said, a company that I have honest respect for, is Polaroid. With their art/promotional programs, they provided lots of (free) materials and technical support, to unknown artists or even students, to help materialize their projects.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    No we're not mate, I read today that the queen is down to her last million pounds. China wouldn't have to go to war with us to bring us to our knees, they would just call in our debts.
    True, on a theoretical level, but in the same way rulers in centuries past made marriage alliances, (the king's son marries the king of another countries' daughter) a country today is not going to shoot itself in the foot by causing harm to the economics of a country it has economic holdings in.

    But you're right, the US is run by financial elites who only care about the short term dollar profit and never about the long range economic interest of the country itself. They have a large military budget for that.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  10. #70
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    The Chinese are waging economic war, they have always been a highly mercantile and industrious nation who are ironically the Worlds largest Communist nation and they are outcapitalisting the Worlds largest Capitalist nation. There will be no need in the future for there to be an armed conflict between
    China and the U.S. China would just need to demand payment of America's debts of $1.317 trillion to ruin the country.
    Last edited by benjiboy; 01-29-2014 at 09:36 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Ben

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