I snipped most of this post, but as a generationally older fart (I'm 44) I think it was all spot on.
Originally Posted by MattKrull
But it also seems like there's quite a bit of "bleed" between the art and journal worlds for many younger photographers. Partly this is because attractive young women get ludicrous amounts of positive(?) feedback for posting semi-artistic selfies, partly it's because young people's art seems invariably to be more self-involved than it will be later in life (and the internet reduces the barriers to seeing that; I bet there's a lot of self-indulgent work in the juvenilia of respected older photographers too).
And maybe part of it is a legitimate reaction against artistic boundaries, a kind of Duchamp-esque poke in the eye at the photographic establishment. Which is all to the good if you ask me (and why wouldn't you? :-) ).
 I follow someone on Flickr who I think is a rather talented photographer with a good eye. She posts a really nice photo of an urban landscape or the light from her window or whatever, and the world goes "meh". She posts a mirror selfie in black and white with a bra strap showing, and the world falls all over itself to tell her how wonderful her art is. What do you suppose she's going to be led to concentrate on? I think that effect is rather tragic, but I suppose I'm not her and I'm not entitled to tell her what she wants to achieve with a camera, right? Sigh.
San Diego, CA, USA
The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
-The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_
there have been millions of "selfies" made since the dawn of time, i don't think that
has anything to do with narcissism or egomania. i think the "i know everything" attitude
that people may have, so they don't learn anything bout the history of the/their medium of choice
may be problematic though. he's got no future and no past ( as nina hagen would sing ) ...
and a selfie from some self absorbed navelgazer will always be just that, nothing more, nothing less ...
Part of the deal with selfies is that if you can double as a model, it's quite convenient, especially if you're shy.
I don't double as a model. I use family members for models and bribe them with ice cream.
To make photos because you enjoy it, in the first instance, is a given - we don't do things because we don't enjoy them. And I completely understand and respect the creativity as self-help thing, when it's needed (everyone in the States has a therapist, I know), but creativity as meaningful communication with others - isn't this historically more valuable? After all, the reason you probably started photography was because the work of others spoke to you. Why not at least try to pass the torch?
Originally Posted by ME Super
Agree with much of your post, but this especially, which is what I was saying in my first post. While I agree that we're reaching critical mass with the amount of outlets we now have for narcissism, I'm sure many people making the photographic narcissism claims are simply looking at the visual scrap books of teenagers a little too much.
Originally Posted by MattKrull
Last edited by batwister; 10-10-2013 at 02:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.
'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde
You need some kind of combination of one or the other. Making money is about business sense. You might be a horrible photographer but a
hardworking con man and succeed. Or you might be a brilliant photographer, plugging along, and just get lucky (not statistically likely, but it
sometimes happens). Or like me, you apply your business skill to something else entirely and then do whatever you enjoy in the darkroom, and from time to time let a little luck trickle in.
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some people do things they dislike.
Originally Posted by batwister
This, I think, has far less to do with aspirations of art and far more to do with the viewer's inherent difficulties with trying to ignore the last five million years of evolution. The phenomenon is not limited to young people, or to Flickr, or even to online in general. All one needs to do to see that is take another look at the submissions to the APUG galleries.
Originally Posted by ntenny
You know all of those forum polls we have that ask about member's age and gender distributions? They're really not necessary. All that's needed is a quick look at the subjects and corresponding view counts in the our own galleries to definitively answer those two questions as 50s and M, with the side benefit of a probable psychological diagnosis of Lonely...
"Take her to sea, Mister Murdoch. Let's stretch her legs."
The First Officer then reaches out and confidently rings the engine room telegraph over to ALL AHEAD FULL...
— Captain Edward John Smith to First Officer William Murdoch, on the bridge of the RMS Titanic, 11 April 1912
... and some people dislike things they do; while others dislike things some people do. It takes all kinds.
Originally Posted by jnanian
Originally Posted by BrianShaw
Are you referring to the nudes?
Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick