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  1. #61
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowanw View Post
    50 years photographing.
    100,000 negatives.
    most Never printed.
    1.2 self portraits a year.
    Not really a poster girl for narcissism.
    Careful now... Looking at the data a little bit deeper, thinking carefully, and then drawing well-reasoned conclusions about what you see is not an approach that will be tolerated kindly around these parts.



    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back theyíll still be there looking at you."

    ó Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    I have never noticed this phenomenon. Perhaps I should pay more attention.
    I noticed it. Then I looked away.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowanw View Post
    50 years photographing.
    100,000 negatives.
    most Never printed.
    1.2 self portraits a year.
    Not really a poster girl for narcissism.
    1.2 a year if you're only counting pictures currently published - I'm sure she took more, but maths isn't the point.

    Just to give credence to the OP's point for a sec - make no mistake, this book could only have been published now. It's not happened, as far as I'm aware, with other photographers (like Maier) whose output doesn't have a basis in self-portraiture? Not that I'd want to see it, but there isn't a Harry Callahan self-portraiture monograph for example - another semi-enigma of her era (who also has self-portraits in his published oeuvre). People are more interested in her - as has been rightly said many times on this forum, but also, there's a massive audience for self-portraiture now which has only appeared in the last few years. The book then has a cynical selling point as far as I see it - one that seems borne out of our obsession with the lives of troubled celebrities via Twitter selfies.
    Last edited by batwister; 10-04-2013 at 03:16 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  4. #64

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    I want to add that whatever my opinion of Maier might be, I don't think she was a narcissist, which is why the book is all the more uncomfortable. It's selling based on a presumption of her motivations and an intrusion of her character, rather than her ability as an artist. Also, the fact that she's a woman helps.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by kintatsu View Post
    I agree 100% about the gender of those doing such. I was probably wrong to use the term MWAC.
    <Si Robertson voice>Hey! Sometimes I'm a DWAC (Dad With A Camera), Jack!</Si Robertson voice>

    Seriously, nothing wrong with getting pictures of your kids, so long as your not an a** while doing it.

    For those not in the know, Si Robertson (Uncle Si) is one of the stars of A&E's "Duck Dynasty." According to him, purnurple [sic] is a color.
    ME Super

    Shoot more film.
    There are eight ways to put a slide into a projector tray. Seven of them are wrong.

  6. #66
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    I want to add that whatever my opinion of Maier might be, I don't think she was a narcissist, which is why the book is all the more uncomfortable. It's selling based on a presumption of her motivations and an intrusion of her character, rather than her ability as an artist. Also, the fact that she's a woman helps.
    I don't think her gender or any other marketing ploy would succeed at selling her work to the extent that it has sold if she didn't have talent. And I really don't see how her gender plays into it either- her anatomical configuration has nothing to do with her photographic ability, which was obviously extraordinary.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I don't think her gender or any other marketing ploy would succeed at selling her work to the extent that it has sold if she didn't have talent. And I really don't see how her gender plays into it either- her anatomical configuration has nothing to do with her photographic ability, which was obviously extraordinary.
    That's an interesting point, moving away from the Maier thing, in relation to Cindy Sherman, whose work plays on classic female stereotypes - often narcissistic stereotypes. The success of her work does actually depend on her gender and our ideas about narcissism. I think narcissism can very often be a means to communicate in photography, without the work actually being narcissistic. But that's conceptual photography for you!
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  8. #68
    kintatsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ME Super View Post
    <Si Robertson voice>Hey! Sometimes I'm a DWAC (Dad With A Camera), Jack!</Si Robertson voice>

    Seriously, nothing wrong with getting pictures of your kids, so long as your not an a** while doing it.

    For those not in the know, Si Robertson (Uncle Si) is one of the stars of A&E's "Duck Dynasty." According to him, purnurple [sic] is a color.
    OK, DWAC, MWAC, SWAC, or PWAC.

    The point isn't that it's parents taking photos of their own children. We all do that.

    The point isn't that the self-proclaimed professional photographer is hurting anyone's business. Real pros are faring quite well around here. People know who provides quality, and who doesn't.

    The point was that people have more access than ever to technology, and are rushing to say they're professional. You wouldn't call yourself a professional electrician because you have some wire and tape, would you? I've noticed that the majority of these folks are trying to supplement their income and fill their time with something. They often seem proud to say, "I'm a professional photographer."

    I've had these WACs say that to me, then ask me why I don't use digital. When I tell them I have a digital camera, they ask which one. When I say the Canon 7D, they seem perplexed that I'm not using it to be a pro. They suggest just that. They say things like "Maybe you can be a pro like me." I usually just say I make my photos because I love doing it. Then they ask if my camera will shoot in color or only black and white. That last one I was asked over 50 times this summer.

    The whole MWAC, DWAC, whatever WAC thing refers to this type of mentality and is not meant to bash anyone. The democratizing of technology leads to this attitude. It was going on in the early 20th century, too, and will continue to. Bill Gates is vilified by Apple and UNIX/LINUX users for creating a system where everyone can use a computer with little to no training. The UNIX/LINUX guys were like the old sage ones, without their knowledge nothing could be done. Now it can and they didnít like it. As things settled down the disdain for Windows remained, but life went on. That will happen with the whole WAC thing.

  9. #69
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kintatsu View Post

    I've had these WACs say that to me, then ask me why I don't use digital. When I tell them I have a digital camera, they ask which one. When I say the Canon 7D, they seem perplexed that I'm not using it to be a pro. They suggest just that. They say things like "Maybe you can be a pro like me." I usually just say I make my photos because I love doing it. Then they ask if my camera will shoot in color or only black and white. That last one I was asked over 50 times this summer.
    That just screams ignorance - doesn't matter if you are shooting film or digital, not knowing enough about the tools available IS unprofessional, even if you aren't using them (aka thinking film cameras come in one of two flavors b/w or color). The "maybe you can be a pro like me" is unbridled arrogance, and one of the few statements from another photographer that would tempt me to respond with snarkiness - "I couldn't possibly be a pro like you - that would require me to descend to mediocrity" comes to mind. But usually I just grunt non-committally and turn my back instead.

    The whole MWAC, DWAC, whatever WAC thing refers to this type of mentality and is not meant to bash anyone. The democratizing of technology leads to this attitude. It was going on in the early 20th century, too, and will continue to. Bill Gates is vilified by Apple and UNIX/LINUX users for creating a system where everyone can use a computer with little to no training. The UNIX/LINUX guys were like the old sage ones, without their knowledge nothing could be done. Now it can and they didnít like it. As things settled down the disdain for Windows remained, but life went on. That will happen with the whole WAC thing.
    Only from a UNIX user perspective can you say that Windows lets you use a computer without training. I develop software applications for a living using Microsoft products, and I STILL don't know enough about the intricacies of the way Windows does stuff.

  10. #70
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I develop software applications for a living using Microsoft products, and I STILL don't know enough about the intricacies of the way Windows does stuff.
    I sometimes wonder if Microsoft does, either...

    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.



 

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