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  1. #81

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    ... nor the work that brings fame and fortune!

  2. #82

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    I did know one highly visible "egomaniacal" photojournalist for whom that unsavory description was merely an artificial marketing persona. Despite his numerous other talents, he was a pretty poor photographer who otherwise got lucky. But if you got to know him a bit, he likewise thought he had, at best, pretty modest visual skills. The big ego and fame was all made up and just a surface veneer, just for the sake of sales
    and travel grants.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    The field of photography has never lacked for big egos... ever. I'm not at all convinced this is a new phenomena.
    Typical of the female sex. We are trying to start a rant here and all you can do is utter two sentences on the topic that are completely grounded in common sense and forces us to think rationally and take a longer, cooler view of things.

    pentaxuser

  4. #84

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    You mistakenly attribute too much to gender differences, but in this case Suzanne is correct as you state.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DREW WILEY View Post
    he was a pretty poor photographer who otherwise got lucky. .....
    I the last few years I have bandied about in my head the concept that anyone who ever became successful actually "got lucky".

    Skill and hard work rarely enters into it.

    Merely pre-destined or just right place, right time and the planets aligned for them.

    Of course then naturally they regard their success as hard work and talent, just like it says on their press clippings.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  6. #86

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    That is certainly one way of looking at it, and there is enough evidence to support it. Others seem to become successful through devious manipulation. That in itself is a skill that requires hard work.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    I the last few years I have bandied about in my head the concept that anyone who ever became successful actually "got lucky".

    Skill and hard work rarely enters into it.

    Merely pre-destined or just right place, right time and the planets aligned for them.

    Of course then naturally they regard their success as hard work and talent, just like it says on their press clippings.
    Have you read Outliers yet?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_%28book%29

    Basically supports your premise of 'luck'. Except I (and the book) would say that luck sometimes rewards someone's competence and hard work, and sometimes it does not. Hard work and competence is still needed -- it enters into it strongly, it is just in some circumstances competence and hard work will not get someone as far as one with equal talents/hard work and luck.

    "Luck" being when and where you were born, how you were raised, etc.
    Last edited by Vaughn; 10-09-2013 at 02:12 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    I the last few years I have bandied about in my head the concept that anyone who ever became successful actually "got lucky".

    Skill and hard work rarely enters into it.

    Merely pre-destined or just right place, right time and the planets aligned for them.

    Of course then naturally they regard their success as hard work and talent, just like it says on their press clippings.
    That's a little bitter? I think it's the people who consistently produce middle brow work and then find themselves in the right place at the right time, who find success and the most vocal opponents. People are definitely more offended by semi-competent wedding photographers than the laughably bad ones for example.

    'Hard work' isn't necessarily good work. Whether you're known for being bad, great or medicore, you still have to work hard for those labels!
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by batwister View Post
    That's a little bitter?
    There is hardly a photo enthusiast site that does not take the tack that they never want to celebrate the fact that someone is truly more talented than them, more successful than them or more brilliant than them, every single site! Moreover, the stars in the photography world don't even post on sites like this for the most part...I know several of them, they are put off by the way amateur camera owners seem to always find fault or put down very successful pros, I am too.

    But like it or not guys, there will always be the star in the photography world and it will be solely the product of volumes of raw talent coupled with boundless tenacity. I think it is hard for many on a site like this to think about because quite often on all photo sites, there is this BS notion that being a pro is not as fun as being an amateur. In the case of being the star, you could not be more wrong.

    Every pursuit in which one can be celebrated for being exceptionally talented, there are egos....it is not humanly possible to engage in society at some level without one, it is a common outlier in our way of being.

    But yeah....photo centric websites avoid giving a great photographer his or her due on a regular basis. For some odd reason, it seems much easier to say "Great Capture" to some uber boring picture and feel good about the small world people tend to want to live in.

    I call that living a lie..
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

  10. #90
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    Fortune + Drive = A chance at success.

    Fortune can get you noticed but without the drive it is highly unlikely you will truly be successful.

    Drive without fortune usually just makes you tired and disappointed.

    Skill is a nice positive but entirely incidental to success.

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