Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,925   Posts: 1,556,801   Online: 954
      
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 50

Thread: ENTROPY

  1. #31

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,286
    Images
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by NedL View Post
    Also you might come across the term in information theory and particularly in discussions of "entropy sources" for encryption.
    I was going to point that out if you didn't, not just to show off my hypertrophied left brain but because I think it's actually kind of relevant to photographic aesthetics. Bear with me here.

    See, in the transition from the actual subject to the photographic image, we keep losing information. The photons are intrinsically a little fuzzy from the moment they bounce off the subject, but more obviously, information disappears into lens distortion, the limitations of the film and development process, etc., etc. If you go in for technical terminology you can look at this as a perpetual decrease, at every stage, of the Shannon entropy of the communication channel between the original object and the image.

    That's a fifty-cent way of saying "everything you do degrades the image".

    Well, there's one aesthetic that's all about minimizing these losses and maintaining a "clean" channel as much as possible, so that the information content of the view in front of the camera is preserved. To achieve that, you'd want dead-sharp, distortion-free lenses, grainless film with enormous dynamic range, and so on. I think it's safe to say that this aesthetic is not the one our illustrious OP is working in most of the time!

    At the other extreme, if you have an impossibly terrible channel that loses all the information of the source, you're not really committing photography. You may end up with an image, but that image will have no correlation with what was in front of the camera, because all that information will have trickled off. Nobody does this on purpose, but I guess it's what happens when you leave the lens cap on, or overexpose to the extent that the whole negative goes to Dmax.

    Somewhere in between, there are infinitely many sweet spots, where the amount of information loss looks "right" to someone. And what I find interesting about much of your work, John, is that it goes a long way out towards that second extreme---further out, many times, than I would have expected to find an interesting image, and yet, there one is. Tons of detailed information about the "source" object has been bled off in the photographic process, and what's left is an unexpected substratum that often has something surprising to say.

    I don't have the knack of seeing those hidden messages in advance, although once in a while I stumble on one by accident. I admire those who manage to tease them out regularly, and it's one of the areas where I hope to do some learning over the rest of my photographic life. Turns out, that right brain is a creative badass if you turn it loose in the right way!

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  2. #32
    cliveh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,424
    Images
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    You want entropy, photograph children.
    Or animals.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    920
    Quote Originally Posted by John Earley View Post
    Entropy: Sending your film to a less than stellar lab and getting back someone elses photos.
    ...which are better than your own.

    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    224

    Entropy

    I recommend getting a copy of "Art and Fear" by David Bayles and Ted Orland.
    There is an e-book addition.

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Midlands, UK
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    920
    Also, 'Art and Ear' by Gauguin.

    But seriously, ^ that book has been on my reading list for too long.
    'Cows are very fond of being photographed, and, unlike architecture, don't move.' - Oscar Wilde

  6. #36
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I've been everywhere ooooohhh yeaahhhh still I'm standing tall.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,654
    +1 for Art and Fear!
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

  7. #37
    NedL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Sonoma County, California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    900
    Images
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    I was going to point that out if you didn't, not just to show off my hypertrophied left brain but because I think it's actually kind of relevant to photographic aesthetics. Bear with me here....
    NT, Wow. That's an amazing way to think about it! A solid actual connection!

  8. #38
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,770
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    johnielvis

    Entropy is very real and tangible.

    We try to organize and build our lives (expending much energy to do so), all-the-while the world around us rips, tears, and hammers away at that organization. When we run out of energy to organize/build/maintain it starts falling apart.

    I could provide an example from politics here, but I will behave.

    entropy |ˈentrəpē|
    noun
    1 Physics a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system.(Symbol: S )
    2 lack of order or predictability; gradual decline into disorder: a marketplace where entropy reigns supreme.
    3 (in information theory) a logarithmic measure of the rate of transfer of information in a particular message or language.
    DERIVATIVES
    entropic |enˈträpik|adjective.
    entropically |enˈträpik(ə)lē|adverb
    ORIGIN mid 19th cent.: from en-2‘inside’ + Greek tropē ‘transformation.’
    entropy
    noun
    life is a struggle against entropy: deterioration, degeneration, crumbling, decline, degradation, decomposition, breaking down, collapse; disorder, chaos.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #39
    markbarendt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,770
    Blog Entries
    3
    Images
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by johnielvis View Post
    There is no iso standard measure of entropy like the base kilogram weight.
    Actually there is a scientific description/definition/formulas that define it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy...hermodynamics) There are also countless examples happening around us day in and day out that prove its existence.

    I do agree that entropy can happen within abstract, intangible, metaphysical systems like; politics, relationships, culture, my psyche, family dynamics, emotions, work situations...

    To directly photograph these can be, how should I put this, a real challenge.

    Our medium needs something physical for the light to bounce off of, we need the visible physical manifestations of entropy to show themselves in a context that makes it understandable to the viewer. (Painters have it easy here by comparison.)
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #40
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Monroe, WA, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,463
    Images
    48
    Aging is an expression of entropy. It doesn't get any more real than that. Look in your mirror today. Then again tomorrow. Or in your coffin six months after.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken Nadvornick; 11-10-2013 at 01:49 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: A more wistful expresion of the sentiment...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin