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Thread: ENTROPY

  1. #41

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    Entropy is often called "time's arrow." Since for practical systems entropy must always increase (the Third Law) it shows that time cannot run backwards. Thus people age but do not get younger.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 11-10-2013 at 12:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

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  2. #42
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Post #29



    Ken
    "Hate is an adolescent term used to stop discussion with people you disagree with. You can do better than that."
    —'blanksy', December 13, 2013

  3. #43

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    this thread has been a fun read.
    i am glad there is a science behind my carelessness

    i think it is a great thing to see how the other other side of the road lives
    and that means sometimes, i focus, meter, stop to f16, expose, process normally and print on ilford photo paper

    in the end the entropy photos look almost the same, not really sure what that says about the world and reality i live in.
    ask me how ..

  4. #44
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Entropy is often called "time's arrow." Since for practical systems entropy must always increase (the Third Law) it shows that time cannot run backwards. Thus people age but do not get younger.
    There are some interesting mind games that say:

    If you travel at the speed of light away from earth for 30 years and back for 30 years, you would arrive back being 60 years older but earth would have aged 4,500,000 years. Something like that.

    There are other interesting theories that say that time is not linear. All time could be happening at once. You could die today and come back as a child in 1600.

    There are also anti matter theories that state that when you make a decision between various choices, that on another plane, you are making all the other choices as well.

    For some reason I love this stuff.... time may just be a human construct to make us feel some comfort but really it's far more complicated than our limited senses can comprehend.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  5. #45
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    There are some interesting mind games that say:

    If you travel at the speed of light away from earth for 30 years and back for 30 years, you would arrive back being 60 years older but earth would have aged 4,500,000 years. Something like that.

    There are other interesting theories that say that time is not linear. All time could be happening at once. You could die today and come back as a child in 1600.

    There are also anti matter theories that state that when you make a decision between various choices, that on another plane, you are making all the other choices as well.

    For some reason I love this stuff.... time may just be a human construct to make us feel some comfort but really it's far more complicated than our limited senses can comprehend.
    Haha a multiverse of entropy!
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    There are some interesting mind games
    One recently proposed idea is that of TARDIS regions in space. These regions are bigger on the inside than on the outside. They get this designation from the name of the doctor's phone booth ship in Doctor Who.

    Turning this notion toward photography, have you ever looked at a print and realized that it contained within it several other smaller images each of which would make an interesting photograph. It is an interesting game that I often pursue. Sometimes I find a smaller image to be better than the print itself. A photographer needs to look carefully at his scene. Sometimes less is more.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 11-11-2013 at 12:55 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    There are some interesting mind games that say:

    If you travel at the speed of light away from earth for 30 years and back for 30 years, you would arrive back being 60 years older but earth would have aged 4,500,000 years. Something like that.
    That's not actually a mind game, it's a pretty well established real phenomenon from special relativity. In a small way, it's a practical concern with GPS signals---their timing is affected by relativistic effects, not by a very large amount but enough to have practical effects on the position computation.

    There are also anti matter theories that state that when you make a decision between various choices, that on another plane, you are making all the other choices as well.
    Quantum mechanics, not antimatter. That's the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum theory; it's probably not in itself actually a "theory", in the sense that it's not testable. Trying to think too hard about this stuff is the quick route from physics to epistemology; the latter is an interesting place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

    For some reason I love this stuff.... time may just be a human construct to make us feel some comfort but really it's far more complicated than our limited senses can comprehend.
    Well, the thermodynamic kind of entropy sort of argues that time *isn't* "just" a human construct, it's a property of physical systems; at least the "arrow" nature of time is. Relativity says time isn't as synchronized as it looks at the human scale, quantum mechanics says the far end of the arrow isn't as predictable as it looks at the human scale, but the basic concept of time (best defined, I think, as "time is what keeps everything from happening all at once") seems to hold together as a "real" thing, at least inasmuch as we can call anything "real".

    I submit that this discussion isn't even off-topic, in that photography is fundamentally about (the illusion of) defying time by turning temporary light into permanent light. As such, anything that can be said about time should lead to something that can be said about photography.

    The many-worlds interpretation has obvious similarities to multiple exposures. Exercise for the reader: What tools does the photographic vocabulary have to address relativistic time dilation?

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    That's not actually a mind game, it's a pretty well established real phenomenon from special relativity. In a small way, it's a practical concern with GPS signals---their timing is affected by relativistic effects, not by a very large amount but enough to have practical effects on the position computation.



    Quantum mechanics, not antimatter. That's the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum theory; it's probably not in itself actually a "theory", in the sense that it's not testable. Trying to think too hard about this stuff is the quick route from physics to epistemology; the latter is an interesting place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.



    Well, the thermodynamic kind of entropy sort of argues that time *isn't* "just" a human construct, it's a property of physical systems; at least the "arrow" nature of time is. Relativity says time isn't as synchronized as it looks at the human scale, quantum mechanics says the far end of the arrow isn't as predictable as it looks at the human scale, but the basic concept of time (best defined, I think, as "time is what keeps everything from happening all at once") seems to hold together as a "real" thing, at least inasmuch as we can call anything "real".

    I submit that this discussion isn't even off-topic, in that photography is fundamentally about (the illusion of) defying time by turning temporary light into permanent light. As such, anything that can be said about time should lead to something that can be said about photography.

    The many-worlds interpretation has obvious similarities to multiple exposures. Exercise for the reader: What tools does the photographic vocabulary have to address relativistic time dilation?

    -NT

    Yeah, I said mind games because it's fun to think about it. Some of it is pretty proven theory on a theoretical level.

    As for our sense or testability of time, we are of course dealing with our ability to reason and test these things and that in itself may be suspect.

    A couple of things:

    Our reality may that our universe is merely the dirt under the fingernails of a large being. I'm sure a flea or a microscopic being thinks that their reality is pretty important too.

    The thing you mentioned about photography is what probably drew me to it. The ability to stop time. To freeze it and display it for others to see as well. That's a pretty amazing thing, all things considered.

    As for time lapse, it's a mind fuck to take a time lapse shot of a scene and have someone walk through it and when you develop it, the person is not there.

    So the analogy is we live about 80 years. In two hundred years, were we ever really here.

    So the question is are we real? Are we really here? And where is here?
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  9. #49

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    You were here if your prints are "archival".

  10. #50
    Black Dog's Avatar
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    I always thought APUG was part of some other dimension...
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

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