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  1. #11
    ic-racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    "Nobody cares how hard you worked"

    Good post about this by Ctein over on Mile Johnston's blog:

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...ou-worked.html

    "It's a really, really important lesson that all photographers should take to heart. If someone already likes your photograph, how hard you worked doesn't matter. If they don't, telling them how hard you worked is not going to change their mind."
    And from a collector's standpoint if you don't think a shark in a tank is worth millions, don't bid on it!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich815 View Post
    "Nobody cares how hard you worked"

    Good post about this by Ctein over on Mike Johnston's blog:

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...ou-worked.html

    "It's a really, really important lesson that all photographers should take to heart. If someone already likes your photograph, how hard you worked doesn't matter. If they don't, telling them how hard you worked is not going to change their mind."
    I'm not really sure about that. This is mixing business vs art. Sure, if you are after success, recognition or money, you'd probably want to do the most impact with the least work possible. There's another twist to that of course, as what first might give you the edge, will result in saturated market very, very soon if you don't find a way to diversify.

    But Art doesn't care about that. Franz Kafka, for example, only published a little while he was alive. He worked hard - so hard actually, it probably killed him. Not to mention Van Gogh.

  3. #13

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    Grab a copy of "Art and Fear" from the library. Special points for me are to be pleased and confirmed doing what you see and producing what is in you demanding to come out rather than attempting to do what others think, believe, or comment about. Your art is bringing forth your vision. Be it fixing my car correctly, soldering in the copper plumbing for my darkroom so there are no drips, mowing my lawn when I'm gone and not forgetting the trimming. Art is doing it 'right' when no one is looking. No matter who you are. A friend started working life as a "Track Dog' on the railroad. He thought he was pretty good when he could get a spike down to rail in three blows. That was pretty much the "measure of the Man." Except he was on a crew with a huge old guy called "Dirty Denny". Dirty Denny could do it regularly in one blow. Never measure yourself against some one else's scale. The cartoon is my suggestion. Ignore the others 'education'.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    A lot of people who are very highly regarded as artists did not print their own work. The fact is that no one cares how hard you work to make the print. The art world, with its galleries, museums, scholars, patrons, collectors, and artists all simply care about the final image and nothing else.
    Hi Chris,
    Is that what you believe, or what you think should be true?

    I just ask because that would imply that a collector or museum only cares about the final image and therefore places the same value on a JPEG shared on Dropbox as a print made by Ansel Adams. I don't know much (anything) about how museums decide what to purchase, but I'm guessing provenance plays a role in certain purchases?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gleaf View Post
    Art is doing it 'right' when no one is looking. No matter who you are.
    I like this.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegman View Post
    Hi Chris,
    Is that what you believe, or what you think should be true?

    I just ask because that would imply that a collector or museum only cares about the final image and therefore places the same value on a JPEG shared on Dropbox as a print made by Ansel Adams. I don't know much (anything) about how museums decide what to purchase, but I'm guessing provenance plays a role in certain purchases?
    Neither. It is simple fact, whether we like it or not. Provenance has nothing whatever to do with how something was made. Provenance is a record of a work of art's ownership, an important thing when buying and selling work after it has left the artist's studio. If you can show a paper trail documenting purchases and sales of a piece going back to the artist and showing every owner the piece has had, that proves the piece is authentic, not a forgery (or a modern print from the original neg).
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

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    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    Neither. It is simple fact, whether we like it or not. Provenance has nothing whatever to do with how something was made. Provenance is a record of a work of art's ownership, an important thing when buying and selling work after it has left the artist's studio. If you can show a paper trail documenting purchases and sales of a piece going back to the artist and showing every owner the piece has had, that proves the piece is authentic, not a forgery (or a modern print from the original neg).
    I'm not explaining myself very well. I suppose what I mean is that if the 'galleries, museums, scholars, patrons, collectors, and artists all simply care about the final image and nothing else', does that not imply that collectors, museums etc. would place the same value on a JPEG of Gursky's 'Rhine II' as they would the original negative and print?

    I'm not an art collector by any means, but I do buy original paintings, i.e. actual paint on canvas. For me that does provide a certain value over an inkjet print of the same thing, even if the final image is identical. Perhaps in the art world, that is frowned upon, but for better or for worse, I do place value on that.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegman View Post
    Hi Chris,
    Is that what you believe, or what you think should be true?

    I just ask because that would imply that a collector or museum only cares about the final image and therefore places the same value on a JPEG shared on Dropbox as a print made by Ansel Adams. I don't know much (anything) about how museums decide what to purchase, but I'm guessing provenance plays a role in certain purchases?
    Tell me how many hours Cartier-Bresson spent slaving over a print that he couldn't quite get right....

    As others have said, if the viewer didn't know how much effort was put into a shot, would the viewer actually care

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoffy View Post
    Tell me how many hours Cartier-Bresson spent slaving over a print that he couldn't quite get right....
    Exactly zero. Apart from the beginning when H.C-B was a clumsy amateur he made no photographs at all, only exposures. But he screamed, and raved, and threatened, and bullied his darkroom staff without limit or pity until the final pictures supported his own idea of his own legend. And yes, there is grand art in that too; just not the art people imagine. There is nothing in the rules that says a great artist has to be a good man.
    Photography, the word itself, invented and defined by its author Sir John.F.W.Herschel, 14 March 1839 at the Royal Society, Somerset House, London. Quote "...Photography or the application of the Chemical rays of light to the purpose of pictorial representation,..". unquote.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maris View Post
    Exactly zero. Apart from the beginning when H.C-B was a clumsy amateur he made no photographs at all, only exposures. But he screamed, and raved, and threatened, and bullied his darkroom staff without limit or pity until the final pictures supported his own idea of his own legend. And yes, there is grand art in that too; just not the art people imagine. There is nothing in the rules that says a great artist has to be a good man.
    That's my point Maris - I am sure that if he could HCB would have had someone else press the damn shutter if he could. I am also pretty sure he would have embraced digital if it was available when he cared about photography.

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