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  1. #71
    Tom1956's Avatar
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    For all my 42 years since the first time I developed film in my GAF tank with D-76, I have contended photography is not art. It is a craft, but not art. But that's my opinion. As an aside, I believe that first roll was 120 I shot with my Dad's Ansco Color Clipper.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails clipperc1.jpg  

  2. #72
    polyglot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jernejk View Post
    The question can be rephrased then:

    is craft a necessary component of art?
    Sure, insofar as you need a medium. However you can do great art (graphical, literature, etc) with minimal (technical) medium/craft, e.g. a pencil. Or just your voice; speech is a medium and a great example of a craft requiring significant and non-obvious skill to do well with despite its apparent technical simplicity.

  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    Sure, insofar as you need a medium. However you can do great art (graphical, literature, etc) with minimal (technical) medium/craft, e.g. a pencil. Or just your voice; speech is a medium and a great example of a craft requiring significant and non-obvious skill to do well with despite its apparent technical simplicity.
    Would you say, then, that a medium, not necessarily a craft, was necessary as a vehicle for art...and that that medium could take the form of a craft, skill, or both?

  4. #74
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    A printout of this thread would make an interesting exhibit in an art gallery.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    A printout of this thread would make an interesting exhibit in an art gallery.
    There is no such thing as an art gallery.

    It's merely an empty building with stuff on the wall and on stands.

    The rest is just marketing.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by polyglot View Post
    This whole damn thread is a red herring.

    There is art (the content and semantics) and there is craft (paper and photons and chemicals and bits). You represent your art using a craft. You can automate a craft or change which particular strain of craft you use, but that has got nothing to do with the art that you perform using your chosen craft.

    99.99% of APUG is craft; art ain't got nothing to do with what goes on in here.
    I've always believed something like this. It's all craft.

    Then the viewer determines whether TO THEM it reaches the level of emotional content to become ART, to them.

    Some windbag in a gallery or marketing piece can try and spin the bullshit but that is just marketing.

    This is the only way the definition works. That way a singer can partake, a mime, a guy pissing on a crucifix, a movie maker,a woodworker, a dancer, an actor, a photographer, a guy in Australia making strange noises about his minimalist declarations that only silver halide analog, you do your own printing etc etc yada yada, and well as every other form of expression can be brought under the umbrella, and catagorized.

    IT'S ALL CRAFT.

    And ART is personal.


    An artist, is a term like " a lover". Well to whom? I may not think you're a lover, I may think you're an asshole. But someone else may think, you are a great lover. OK. Some people may think you're a terrible lover and some may think you are a beginning lover and some may think that if you don't carry out every aspect of the lovemaking experience then you aren't really a lover at all.

    You could have someone else do the foreplay and you step in and do the orgasm part, then are you a great lover? Beats me. Ask the recipient.

    Are you a great lover if you use a totally different body part to help her attain orgasm. What about if you use an electric vibrator instead of original equipment? OR even a battery operated one. Or solar powered. Are you really a lover if you use technology like that. What about a selfie?

    Same answer. Ask the recipient. It's a personal experience. If she says, you're an artist and the experience was ART. She should know.
    Hell, I still think you're an asshole. But that's just me.

    However in all cases, it took craftsmanship to gain the desired result.
    Last edited by blansky; 12-04-2013 at 10:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  7. #77
    polyglot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold View Post
    Would you say, then, that a medium, not necessarily a craft, was necessary as a vehicle for art...and that that medium could take the form of a craft, skill, or both?
    I would say that you need a medium in which to execute your art, otherwise it's just your imagination. To me it's not art until it's outside your head and reified.

    And you need some level of skill to work in any medium, but the bar can be pretty low. A 5-year-old's scrawl is sufficient craft-skill to execute literature, the art is in the emotions etc evoked by the words, not the physical form of the words. Or if you want to do photography, you need to be able to compose and push a button, optionally make a selection of aperture/speed - again, I could teach that to a 5 year old. What matters is your composition, choice of light and how it affects the viewer - all the crap with phenidone and thiosulfate or photoshop and inkjet is just craft choices and can all be outsourced if you want without reducing the art that you reified (made real, fixed into a medium) when you opened the shutter - just like HCB outsourced all the craft of print-making.

    Sure there are some correlations between people with powerful craft skills and people with good artistic vision but that's only because they practiced them concurrently. There a many more people with one and not the other, especially people with craft and no art. Citation: 99.9% of the photos people put on the internet. Conversely, I've seen wonderful art made with shitty cellphone cameras and while they might look better shot on LF Velvia, that doesn't reduce the artistic value of the images those people made where the only craft skill involved was "push the button".

  8. #78
    Truzi's Avatar
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    I don't think my photos would even be considered craft, lol.
    Truzi

  9. #79
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    The idea that photograph is "Art" is very recent one, certainly during the last fifty years mainly as a marketing ploy by photographers agents and galleries to help sell their work.
    Ben

  10. #80
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    I can buy the argument that photography is not an art. But then painting isn't an art either.



 

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