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  1. #11
    winger's Avatar
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    Looking at something like a Jackson Pollock, it's easy to think that it's so simple to do. But try it - it's easy to do it, but not nearly as easy to do it well.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by winger View Post
    Looking at something like a Jackson Pollock, it's easy to think that it's so simple to do. But try it - it's easy to do it, but not nearly as easy to do it well.
    It's also hard to find a consensus on what doing it "well" means. With more-or-less-realistic representational art, you can usually get viewers to a level of basic agreement about whether the representation looks like what it represents, and if your goal was to paint a deer and it came out looking more like a rabbit, that represents a pretty unambiguous failure.

    But if you meant to paint a blob, and you got a blob, but it wasn't the blob you wanted...or maybe it was...or maybe you didn't have a preexisting vision of a particular blob? And your viewer doesn't have an a priori reference for what a blob should look like, so some viewers are likely to see "good blob" and some "bad blob", and there's no real common framework that would allow them to go much further than that.

    It's kind of hard to make a solid argument against someone who says "I think Jackson Pollock sucks". You can point to other people who think he's terrific, you can handwave about expressiveness, but there's practically nothing objective there about which you can start discussing, and the conversation tends to devolve into the Argument Clinic.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  3. #13
    analoguey's Avatar
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    So someone who writes for the paper could write a long rambling piece about how he or his photos could get selected in a photo-club, sort of. Not an average person with a (digital) camera and a smartphone or tablet or computer. In between he rambled on even after the cows came home.

    Whatever 'technology has enabled', so to say - then every amateur writer/blogger who ventured into the competition would get published in that paper. The Dependent or whatever it was.
    But they didn't. Others might've a blog post about it. At best; On their own blog. They've not featured. This man has. Why? Everyone has at least 3 word-processor enabled devices with them now - on a good non-alcohol non-drug induced day, everyone should've been able to write AND get published.

    Re digital or film, anyone could've bought top-notch film gear and still gone off to produce images. I dont get this nonsense about digital getting you better images without any intervention - the 'better' part is in the immediacy!
    In good daylight - as the author says - who's to say a full frame P&S film camera wouldn't be better than the digital aps-c P&S?

    And to say technique or technological know-how is not required now, is rubbish! Most cameras now have a textbook instead of a manual - hell, a flash I bought used has a 150pg user manual.
    Hows it 'easier'? Where's the lack of need for technical knowledge?


    At a certain point of time, I used to get really irritated by people posting pictures of traffic in motion - long exposures with basically tail-lights trailing - mostly because of it was the kind of 'at x place open shutter for y seconds n be done'.
    When I attempted it myself, I realised that while I was right in that the images being bad - it wasn't anywhere close to easy to get a dramatic one, myself (not to my satisfaction anyways) - the tail-light trails of course were easy -just stand at a fly-over/ pedestrian overpass.
    (I still get irritated by such photos, but I don't subscribe to those groups anymore B-))


    Sent from Tap-a-talk

  4. #14

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    This is a passage from Technique's Marginal Centrality by Clive James, published in Poetry Magazine January 2012. Very interesting and applicable.

    At the court of the Shogun Iyenari, it was a tense moment. Hokusai, already well established as a prodigiously gifted artist, was competing with a conventional brush-stroke painter in a face-off judged by the shogun personally. Hokusai painted a blue curve on a big piece of paper, chased a chicken across it whose feet had been dipped in red paint, and explained the result to the shogun: it was a landscape showing the Tatsuta River with floating red maple leaves. Hokusai won the competition. The story is well known but the reaction of the conventional brush-stroke artist was not recorded. It's quite likely that he thought Hokusai had done not much more than register an idea, or, as we would say today, a concept. A loser's view, perhaps; though not without substance. If Hokusai had spent his career dipping chickens in red paint, he would have been Yoko Ono.
    But Hokusai did a lot more, and the same applies to ever artist we respect, in any field: sometimes they delight us with absurdly simple things, but we expect them to back it up with plenty of evidence that they can do complicated things as well. And anyway, on close examination the absurdly simple thing might turn out to be achieved not entirely without technique. Late in his career Picasso would take ten seconds to turn a bicycle saddle and a pair of handlebars into a bull's head and expect to charge you a fortune for it, but when he was sixteen he could paint a cardinal's full-length portrait that looked better than anything ever signed by Velazquez. You can't tell, just from looking at the bull's head, that it was assembled by a hand commanding infinities of know-how, but you would have been able to tell, from looking at Hokusai's prize-winning picture, that a lot of assurance lay behind the sweep of blue paint, and that he had professionally observed floating red maple leaves long enough to know that the prints of a chicken's red-painted feet would resemble them, as long as the chicken could be induced to move briskly and not just hang about making puddles.
    When we switch this test apparatus to poetry, we arrive quickly at a clear division between poets who are hoping to achieve something by keeping technical considerations out of it, and other poets who want to keep technique out of it because they don't have any. R.F. Langley, one of the school of poets around Jeremy Prynne, died recently. As adept of that school, he had put many dedicated years into perfection the kind of poem whose integrity depends on its avoiding any hint of superficial attraction. Part of one of his poems was quoted in the tribute by the Guardianobituarist, himself an affiliate of the Prynne cenacle. It was instantly apparent that the poet had succeeded in all his aims:


    We leave unachieved in the
    summer dusk. There are no
    maps of moonlight. We find
    peace in the room and don't
    ask what won't be answered.


    Impeccably bland, resolutely combed for any hint of the conventionally poetic, its lack of melody exactly matched by its lack of rhythm, Langley's poem had shaken off all trace of the technical heritage, leaving only the question of whether to be thus unencumbered is a guarantee of novelty. Hard not to think of how far modern poetry has come since T.S. Eliot continually improved his technical command in order to make his effects by leaving it unemphasized, a vastly different approach to the question:


    They are rattling breakfast plates in basement kitchens,
    And along the trampled edges of the street
    I am aware of the damp souls of housemaids
    Sprouting despondently at area gates.
    -From Morning at the Window

    To write a stanza like that, with no end-rhymes but with a subtle interplay of interior echoes, we tend to assume that the poet needed to be able to write the rhymed stanzas of "Sweeney Among the Nightingales," and then sit on the knowledge. At the time it was written, even the most absolute of enthusiasts for modern poetry would have hesitated to point out the truth - that the stanza was held together by its rhythmic drive - unless he further pointed out that it was also held together by the sophisticated assiduity with which it didn't rhyme. In other words, the whole of English poetry's technical heritage was present in Eliot's work, and never more so than when it seemed free in form.

  5. #15
    Truzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    It's kind of hard to make a solid argument against someone who says "I think Jackson Pollock sucks". You can point to other people who think he's terrific, you can handwave about expressiveness, but there's practically nothing objective there about which you can start discussing, and the conversation tends to devolve into the Argument Clinic.
    No it doesn't.
    Truzi

  6. #16
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    I Could Have Done That
    You know, last night I was standing outside looking up at the stars and the light bulb went off. It's not that the sun and stars travel around the Earth. It's that the Earth spins around itself giving us an illusion of these objects crossing the sky, rising and setting. How simple. I'm embarrassed I hadn't thought of it sooner.

  7. #17
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    could of , would of , should of,
    Have, have, have!


    Steve.

  8. #18
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    I was lucky enough to work with Carrie , his wife on her book project as well make the show prints, We spent a lot of time together here in Toronto and as well in California.
    Neil is a very down to earth dude , but his wife Carrie is a truly wonderful person and he is fortunate to have someone like her in his corner.

    I have never been a huge Rush fan, but after going to a couple of concerts here I gained an appreciation on how three dudes can really play.
    I also met the lead guitarist here at my shop on a photo shoot and he is a huge photo collector and a really nice person.

    I remember when I played fastball, Getty would watch in the stands, he is a huge baseball fan. All three of these dudes are very grounded and truly great Canadian ambassadors.



    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Sintchak (rich815) View Post
    I worship Neil Peart.

  9. #19
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truzi View Post
    No it doesn't.
    Love it.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  10. #20
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    and the conversation tends to devolve into the Argument Clinic.

    -NT
    ..or even down the hall to Abuse.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

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