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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    Because the camera is likely to be larger, heavier, and festooned with additional dials, buttons and superfluous information. The only variables necessary for making an exposure are shutter speed and aperture, and the capacity to wind on the film. Everything beyond that hands some aspect of your photography to a technical designer. That's okay if you want your photography to be a collaboration rather than a personal decision, but I don't trust electronic engineers or software designers to know how I want my negative to come out, and experience has shown I'm correct to entertain that suspicion.

    Film photography can be as complicated or a simple as you want to make it. Most film packets still have Sunny 16 info, and with a little experience even that will give you consistently exposed negatives. If your idea of fun is setting exposure bracketing for 1/2 or 1/3 stop increments, or spot metering for five different areas and letting the camera work out the average, you'll enjoy 1990s cameras. If you want street photography negatives that contain identical density, day after day and in all conditions, you shouldn't put your trust in automation.
    I disagree strongly with this attitude. The camera is only a tool. Blaming the camera for my failure would just be silly. This is like saying "The Devil made me do it." The automatic features in cameras can be used or not used in any way that the photographer wants. Your theory is that my use of an in-camera meter is bad and I should just use "Sunny 16". You do not give the photographer any credit for controlling the features of the tool at his disposal.
    Dave

    "She's always out making pictures, She's always out making scenes.
    She's always out the window, When it comes to making Dreams.

    It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up."

    From It's All Mixed Up by The Cars

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar_guy View Post
    ... You do not give the photographer any credit for controlling the features of the tool at his disposal.
    Nor is proper credit being given for the engineers and marketting people. They do not work in a vacuum. They work with people like us to determine what is value-added as well as determining what will sell.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post

    I don't sense that you are suggesting we pour our own plates.
    That's up to the individual, and I welcome the return of historic processes like wet plate collodion for its unique look. I'm talking about the evolution of the miniature camera, specifically the 35mm SLR, from poor design and inappropriate materials, through various useful innovations, to overblown, indulgent, gimmick ridden plastic brick that was mostly about selling novelty in a saturated and jaded camera market.

    Can you use such objects for making photographs? Of course. As a kid I had shoes with a compass in the heel, but they wouldn't be my first choice for finding my way home.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar_guy View Post
    I disagree strongly with this attitude. The camera is only a tool. Blaming the camera for my failure would just be silly. This is like saying "The Devil made me do it." The automatic features in cameras can be used or not used in any way that the photographer wants. Your theory is that my use of an in-camera meter is bad and I should just use "Sunny 16". You do not give the photographer any credit for controlling the features of the tool at his disposal.
    I'm suggesting that photography is a simple medium made complicated with the aim of selling people more cameras. Would you teach a newcomer the basics using a Spotmatic or an EOS1v? I'm betting the Pentax (or any other match needle manual SLR) will tell them what they need to know more quickly, and focus their mind on taking consistently better photographs instead of learning optical computer programming.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    I'm suggesting that photography is a simple medium made complicated with the aim of selling people more cameras. Would you teach a newcomer the basics using a Spotmatic or an EOS1v? I'm betting the Pentax (or any other match needle manual SLR) will tell them what they need to know more quickly, and focus their mind on taking consistently better photographs instead of learning optical computer programming.
    That answer is a smoke screen and is evasive. Nobody stays a beginner forever. People are capable of learning to use modern cameras and obtaining great results.
    Dave

    "She's always out making pictures, She's always out making scenes.
    She's always out the window, When it comes to making Dreams.

    It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up."

    From It's All Mixed Up by The Cars

  6. #106

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    there's a lot of straw men in this thread

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar_guy View Post
    That answer is a smoke screen and is evasive. Nobody stays a beginner forever. People are capable of learning to use modern cameras and obtaining great results.
    Nobody has questioned that. By the same token Ansel Adams and Gary Winogrand shot some of the finest landscapes and street photographs without even a light meter in their cameras.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    Nobody has questioned that. By the same token Ansel Adams and Gary Winogrand shot some of the finest landscapes and street photographs without even a light meter in their cameras.
    Agreed, and Press photographers used to use Speed Graphics and flash bulbs. Ansel Adams would have been hard pressed to cover a Sporting event with his view camera.
    Dave

    "She's always out making pictures, She's always out making scenes.
    She's always out the window, When it comes to making Dreams.

    It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up."

    From It's All Mixed Up by The Cars

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by mopar_guy View Post
    Agreed, and Press photographers used to use Speed Graphics and flash bulbs. Ansel Adams would have been hard pressed to cover a Sporting event with his view camera.
    True, although they were used for such events in their day. You could make a fair argument that sports photography (fast follow autofocus, high shutter speeds, autowind, etc) dominated the design of SLRs in their last twenty years and continues to influence DSLR thinking to the exclusion other priorities. Those wanting a more targeted camera were forced to look elsewhere.

    The question that might be asked is what advantage do readers of this forum believe film offers over digital photography. Whatever the answer, I doubt it involves more automation in the equation.

  10. #110

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    To add one more point, I just came back from walking the dog over the hills taking photographs on one of the latest mirrorless digital cameras. It finally succeeded in the promise that has been hyped for the last twenty years, of taking sharp, well saturated, grain free images at silly ISOs. I manually set the aperture and shutter speed, put the ISO on auto and keeping a thumb ready on the exposure comp dial, allow the camera to do its thing. No more choosing to freeze the action or get depth of field, I can have both, with no IQ compromises. Great for sports!

    On the other hand sharp images of peerless image quality are only a small part of my photography. Feel, mood, process are more important, which is why film makes up most of my image making.



 

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