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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    If you can write a novel with a typewriter, or a pen, why bother with a laptop?

    Oh dear...
    Yup, however did Shakespeare manage without a word processor and a spell check? Actually, quite a few successful modern novelists write with a pen and paper. Are they mad?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    If you can write a novel with a typewriter, or a pen, why bother with a laptop?

    Oh dear...
    The analogy of writing a novel using a laptop is quite a good one. Just like camera automation it may change the speed at which you complete the task and the volume of the outcome, but makes no difference to the creative input.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    The analogy of writing a novel using a laptop is quite a good one. Just like camera automation it may change the speed at which you complete the task and the volume of the outcome, but makes no difference to the creative input.
    The association you make between creative writing and speed is most revealing.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    The association you make between creative writing and speed is most revealing.
    I am not making an association between creative writing and speed, but a laptop and speed.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    You may, or may not be missing my point. If you can do everything you need to do with a simple, well made manual camera, what was the last twenty years of camera 'innovation' except a huge marketing exercise? Leica users (of whom I'm not a member) always insisted it was all a side show to the business of making pictures.
    I don't think I am missing your point. I think you are being narrow-minded and not accepting the fact that the last 20 years (more, actually) of camera innovation is much more than a huge marketing exercise. Sure, you and others have no need for such innovation but that does not make it either evil or useless or market manipulation.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    I don't think I am missing your point. I think you are being narrow-minded and not accepting the fact that the last 20 years (more, actually) of camera innovation is much more than a huge marketing exercise. Sure, you and others have no need for such innovation but that does not make it either evil or useless or market manipulation.
    I don't believe it is evil, I think it's irrelevant to the business of making interesting photographs. I own such 'seminal' SLRs as the Canon T90 and other technical marvels, and while they have great historical novelty value and are capable of taking fine photos, they don't take 'better' photographs than my full manual Nikon F, Canon FTb, Zeiss Ikons, OM1, etc. The term straw man is a ridiculously overused term of internet abuse, but it's hard to see my appraisal of camera developments as evil in any other way. Marketing, spin and hype, I'd definitely concur with.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    You may, or may not be missing my point. If you can do everything you need to do with a simple, well made manual camera, what was the last twenty years of camera 'innovation' except a huge marketing exercise? Leica users (of whom I'm not a member) always insisted it was all a side show to the business of making pictures.
    Camera manufacturers, like all consumer products marketers have to convince that that this years all singing, all dancing product is better than the last years, and make them so dissatisfied with what they have they want to replace it with the new one. Digital photography pulled off the greatest marketing coup of all time by re-inventing the wheel and selling millions of cameras all around the World to people who had perfect good ones already.
    Ben

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    Camera manufacturers, like all consumer products marketers have to convince that that this years all singing, all dancing product is better than the last years, and make them so dissatisfied with what they have they want to replace it with the new one. Digital photography pulled off the greatest marketing coup of all time by re-inventing the wheel and selling millions of cameras all around the World to people who had perfect good ones already.
    Ya... same goes for talkies. Talk about re-inventing wheels. Who needs sound. Silent movies were enough to understand what the story was about. In fact, those crazy subtitles were a waste of time too. EVERYBODY knows what is going on so why do they think they have to tell us?

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    I don't believe it is evil, I think it's irrelevant to the business of making interesting photographs. I own such 'seminal' SLRs as the Canon T90 and other technical marvels, and while they have great historical novelty value and are capable of taking fine photos, they don't take 'better' photographs than my full manual Nikon F, Canon FTb, Zeiss Ikons, OM1, etc. The term straw man is a ridiculously overused term of internet abuse, but it's hard to see my appraisal of camera developments as evil in any other way. Marketing, spin and hype, I'd definitely concur with.
    Conversely, you do seem to be implying that your Nikon F, Canon FTb and Zeiss Ikons, et al. are capable of taking "better" photographs than the T90 and friends.

    This is a really pedantic discussion guys, every camera with a selectable aperture, shutter speed, and (if applicable) asa/iso setting for a meter is capable of making the same photos. 35mm technical advancement was driven by the consumer (ease of use, automation) and professional journalism (ruggedness, speed, automation) sectors. Medium format slowly gained the same benefits in a few cameras (auto exp., AF, motor drives), but at prohibitive expense and reduced efficacy.
    See my work at my website CHRISTOPHER LANGE PHOTOGRAPHY

    or my snaps at my blog MINIMUM DENSITY
    --
    If you don't have it, then you don't have it.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    Conversely, you do seem to be implying that your Nikon F, Canon FTb and Zeiss Ikons, et al. are capable of taking "better" photographs than the T90 and friends.
    No, that's in your own head. I'm saying you don't need a huge brick with a dozen buttons and a menu to take great photos. If toting the brick around is your idea of fun, go for it (as I said way back in the thread).



 

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