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  1. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    Ya... same goes for talkies. Talk about re-inventing wheels. Who needs sound. Silent movies were enough to understand what the story was about. In fact, those crazy subtitles were a waste of time too. EVERYBODY knows what is going on so why do they think they have to tell us?
    Benjiboy made an excellent point and you've flagged up another straw man. He and I have both worked in camera sales (me many years ago) so are able to tell facts from fancy.

    I once knew a camera salesman who could wax lyrical about the latest thing and sell fridges to Eskimos. What camera did he use? The same Nikon rangefinder he used for ever.

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Lange View Post
    35mm technical advancement was driven by the consumer

  3. #133
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    In my experience of more than 20 years of selling cameras the general public tend to use technology as a crutch for lack of knowledge , so they can take "good" pictures, without actually thinking.
    Ben

  4. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    In my experience of more than 20 years of selling cameras the general public tend to use technology as a crutch for lack of knowledge , so they can take "good" pictures, without actually thinking.
    I agree. It used to be the case that SLRs were the camera to be seen with, but a substantial minority, perhaps even a majority of purchasers, didn't know how to use one. So when Program mode and other auto settings came along they could be seen with a 'professional' camera, and have pictures that 'came out' to impress their family, without troubling with all those dials. I bet a large number never moved off P mode for their entire lives, and as long as a majority of their photographs were okay, they were happy. Nothing wrong with that, but the shots they took were indistinguishable from a point and shoot which would have fit in their purse/pocket.

    Most innovations were obstacles for people who knew what they were doing, or at least added cost, weight and complexity. It took years for autofocus to work as people imagined it originally should, and the first couple of generations were risible. Slow kit zooms - another fashion people thought they needed over a standard prime - and dull conditions must have been an exercise in frustration, when excellent fresnel screens that would focus in a moment had been available for years. And so it went on, and still does.

    Each to their own and all that, but most camera technology from the eighties until digital came along was a solution in search of a problem.

  5. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    I agree. It used to be the case that SLRs were the camera to be seen with, but a substantial minority, perhaps even a majority of purchasers, didn't know how to use one. So when Program mode and other auto settings came along they could be seen with a 'professional' camera, and have pictures that 'came out' to impress their family, without troubling with all those dials. I bet a large number never moved off P mode for their entire lives, and as long as a majority of their photographs were okay, they were happy. Nothing wrong with that, but the shots they took were indistinguishable from a point and shoot which would have fit in their purse/pocket.

    Most innovations were obstacles for people who knew what they were doing, or at least added cost, weight and complexity. It took years for autofocus to work as people imagined it originally should, and the first couple of generations were risible. Slow kit zooms - another fashion people thought they needed over a standard prime - and dull conditions must have been an exercise in frustration, when excellent fresnel screens that would focus in a moment had been available for years. And so it went on, and still does.

    Each to their own and all that, but most camera technology from the eighties until digital came along was a solution in search of a problem.
    I hope you understand and accept that not everyone shares your opinion.

  6. #136
    MDR
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    Blockend correct metering can be done with an AF and a fully manual camera that's what an AE Lock is there for. In both cases manual and Auto the user is the problem not the camera correctly used both can create superb results. And the fastest focussing is done with a fix focus camera

  7. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by miha View Post
    I hope you understand and accept that not everyone shares your opinion.
    I hope you understand and accept that I'm allowed my opinion, and I back it up with examples. The OPs asks whether using a camera in manual is difficult. The answer is no. So long as you know what you're doing it's easy. If you don't know what you're doing technology won't fix it for you (unless you want someone else's idea of average).

  8. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    Blockend correct metering can be done with an AF and a fully manual camera that's what an AE Lock is there for. In both cases manual and Auto the user is the problem not the camera correctly used both can create superb results. And the fastest focussing is done with a fix focus camera
    Good example MDR. Is AE lock quicker than metering a scene? It's arguable, depends on the conditions. AE lock is certainly useful, probably essential, if the controls that allowed you to meter manually are tucked away somewhere. Put the aperture and shutter speed in dedicated dials and manual metering and override is no problem and as instant as anything you'll find on a camera. Then there was the great disappearing aperture ring ruse. That was a consumer benefit how exactly?

    AF is another good example. AF lenses allowed you to focus manually to keep curmudgeons and nay-sayers happy (or anyone else who tired of their AF hunting between the lens hood and Saturn), but instead of a nice helicoid and grip you got a vestigial ring of plastic on a shaky mount that was next to unusable. That's not an option, it's a premature invitation to a brave new world of under-developed technology for beta testers with conspicuous consumption. All IMHO, as ever.

    There were high points of course, spot metering among them. To use spot metering you need at least a passing acquaintance with the zone system. Without any knowledge spot metering is a receipe for badly exposed images. Metering became more reliable generally in the 80s, moving away from CdS cells but few serious photographers relied unquestioningly on their meters, and most brought into play a lot of experience. Weather sealing was also useful, but tended to be available on professional cameras with pro price tags, etc, etc. Most of the era was dumbing down and novelty so far as 35mm SLRs go.
    Last edited by blockend; 02-04-2014 at 06:33 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #139
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    I'm quite fond of the eye controlled focus/exposure feature on a couple of my Canon film cameras.

    The feature has some problems, as it doesn't work for everyone, but I think that it is an example of a technological addition that has real value for some - both experienced photographers and casual shooters.

    It isn't necessary, but it is attractive and useful for many people. Just as the brilliant viewfinder in my Olympus OM cameras is attractive and useful - especially when paired with the right lenses.

    blockend is right in that some of the extra features on some cameras are implemented in ways that are less than ideal. But when the implementation is done well .....
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by blockend View Post
    Benjiboy made an excellent point and you've flagged up another straw man. He and I have both worked in camera sales (me many years ago) so are able to tell facts from fancy.

    I once knew a camera salesman who could wax lyrical about the latest thing and sell fridges to Eskimos. What camera did he use? The same Nikon rangefinder he used for ever.
    I've known many camera sales people who knew every technical detail of every high- tech camera on the market who knew nothing about taking pictures, whose work was like amateur snaps, all their knowledge was theoretical, gleaned from camera specifications on sales brochures, they were like car salesman who couldn't drive .
    Ben



 

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