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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwd722 View Post
    An interesting little documentary about why one would shoot film in today's world.
    Hope you enjoy it.
    http://www.picturecorrect.com/tips/w...-over-digital/
    Nice job by all involved, this is one of the best ways to market film in my mind, with love and passion for the medium. Kodak is being genuine and smart here, they know who their market is now and they are confirming it with this kind of portrayal. While it does not represent all of us in nuance, it represents a lot of us in passion.

    I know a fair bit of young people now who are really enjoying the balance something as hands on as film brings to their otherwise over-digitized lives. I’m really grateful to be a part of mentoring them, hanging out with them on cool ad campaigns, other shoots. We have some real growth in my local area in terms of interest in it and that all stems from being super positive about film and doing work that gets us excited, the passion is infectious.

    That being said, I truly feel sad for those who pick this video apart and can’t see what it stands for, a love of photography in a form that will clearly outlive anything digital becomes. My clients want to me to shoot more film now, because that is when my heart skips a beat and they get the best photographs from me they possibly can. We now have 4 galleries in town that show photography in retail spaces that command $6,000-$14,000 a month. Aside from Peter Lik's Vegas looking digs, 75% of the work is Silver Gel, not compu-prints.

    There is a lot of claim in how digital fine art is catching up with Silver Gel in technical terms and while that is true, it can not outpace the tsunami of public perception that digital art and digital photography is something that more and more people can do every day, so why pay for it. I'm a business man and I know a bad investment when I see one and digital photography is certainly that, it is designed to self-obsolete.

    After 22 years of being on the deck of the digital ship, I can see what is happening, I am not going down with it....
    Last edited by PKM-25; 01-29-2014 at 10:12 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    Nice job by all involved, this is one of the best ways to market film in my mind, with love and passion for the medium. Kodak is being genuine and smart here, they know who their market is now and they are confirming it with this kind of portrayal. While it does not represent all of us in nuance, it represents a lot of us in passion.

    I know a fair bit of young people now who are really enjoying the balance something as hands on as film brings to their otherwise over-digitized lives. I’m really grateful to be a part of mentoring them, hanging out with them on cool ad campaigns, other shoots. We have some real growth in my local area in terms of interest in it and that all stems from being super positive about film and doing work that gets us excited, the passion is infectious.

    That being said, I truly feel sad for those who pick this video apart and can’t see what it stands for, a love of photography in a form that will clearly outlive anything digital becomes. My clients want to me to shoot more film now, because that is when my heart skips a beat and they get the best photographs from me they possibly can. We now have 4 galleries in town that show photography in retail spaces that command $6,000-$14,000 a month. Aside from Peter Lik's Vegas looking digs, 75% of the work is Silver Gel, not compu-prints.

    There is a lot of claim in how digital fine art is catching up with Silver Gel in technical terms and while that is true, it can not outpace the tsunami of public perception that digital art and digital photography is something that more and more people can do every day, so why pay for it. I'm a business man and I know a bad investment when I see one and digital photography is certainly that, it is designed to self-obsolete.

    After 22 years of being on the deck of the digital ship, I can see what is happening, I am not going down with it....
    Interesting post and good luck with your decision.

    But my fault with the video is that it is dishonest as most advertising is. The "love" of analog could easily have been shown in an honest manner. There are people on APUG who turn out stunning black and white work but instead the film shows a lot of mediocre photographers spouting nonsense.

    As for digital going anywhere, your niche is a pretty small example of the photography market and digital never has and probably never will be able to touch the fine art print marketplace, for the simple reason that fine art is by definition a niche/scarce product.

    But thanks for your point of view.
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky View Post
    But my fault with the video is that it is dishonest as most advertising is. The "love" of analog could easily have been shown in an honest manner. There are people on APUG who turn out stunning black and white work but instead the film shows a lot of mediocre photographers spouting nonsense.
    I agree, it seems like so many of these types of videos end up as such and don't need to...

    Of course I must admit that I'm alright with almost anything (within reason) that sells film at this point.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    I've double-checked and confirmed that ALL my lenses are as wide vertically as horizontally. And what happens when I put my "analog" lens on my digital camera? Does that make it a "digital" lens? What if I were able to put my "digital" lens on my analog camera?

    BTW, if I want to get a "6x6" look, I can crop. I've never felt limited by the ratio of the "sensor" dimensions in analog or digital.
    Digital lenses (particularly wide angle lenses) are designed with optical formulas to take into account the 'behavior' of the sensor and are almost always retro-focus instead of symmetrical, and analog lenses simply perform differently with a digital sensor than on film. All lenses are as wide vertically but ALL digital sensors automatically crop the top and bottom of the image. Then if you want to shoot square, you have to crop <again>. The optical formulas of Hasseblad V lenses for example, were designed to be used 'full frame', it's how they 'paint' the image, you just can't replicate the 'look' of a 38mm Biogon with a digital camera or medium format sensor.

  5. #35

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    Just as soon as I retire from this job, I won't have to be sitting here with a keypad and mouse getting carpal tunnel misery, cramped shoulders, and a sore butt. You'll probably never hear from me again (celebrate now). The last thing I want to do is process images that way. So that's
    a valid reason to ignore digital photography! Not all of us want to be hooked up to a high-fructose corn syrup IV indoors, or want an obnoxious electonic device spoiling our outdoor forays. Use those CDS's for skeet shooting, and your smart phones for skipping across ponds. Give me a
    real darkroom, nice n' quiet. .. But I never did figure out how Fred Picker integrated classical music to his compensating metronome in his own
    darkroom... maybe Bach had to be played at just the right developer temperature.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    To the viewer of the end result, or to the producer who sees the image along the way to a final product?

    I wonder if anyone's done a double-blind test lately. My gut feeling is that we're at the point where no viewer could possibly distinguish which images were film and which digital in a pool of well-produced examples, but I can't prove that.

    -NT
    To both. I'm not saying one is better than the other and I don't want to hi-jack this thread and turn it into film vs digital especially since I use both, but they are different. Once you start printing large the differences are obvious. It's like the difference between a CRT television and 1080P. There is a sense of detachment (I call it de-familiarization) when watching a movie on CRT while the HD version looks so real you could walk right into the screen. Film has the same effect and interprets the image differently just by the nature of how silver halide responds to photons. You just can't replicate it by adding grain with a plug-in.

  7. #37

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    I know three of those guys, they are being straight up in the video, no BS and I agree with what they are saying 100%. I don’t agree with the slam on the work, some of it is ok, a good bit of it is really nice, considerably better than a lot of the work I see on this site.

    I would think we all share the common desire for film to stick around, but the lack of logic here in regards to what I consider to be a nice narrative on current film users and what I still think is the best advertising….is baffling to me. Compared to living life in and around people like these guys who love life behind the lens, APUG is a very negative place in terms of moving film forward.

    For too many APUG members, it’s often the complaining seems to be the biggest past time on here. Since I have been a member, legions of people have complained that Kodak does not advertise. So here they do it in a *KILLER* way and people still slam on it….

    You seriously need to wake up, the video is awesome, truthful and to the point. This is narrative and advertising and that is *exactly* what Kodak needs to be doing right now and in the future.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    Agree with ntenny and that was basically my point earlier. Barring extreme procedures, in a blind test I doubt anyone can tell the difference at this point. The "film is better" or "film is different" argument may have applied earlier on, but by now the digital technology is so good I really think if we're honest with ourselves as analog workers, the only truly valid reasons we have for working in analog are that we enjoy it (and don't enjoy computers) and that it is what we know how to do. It isn't about differences in the final product anymore. At least in my case, I can't reasonably take that position. It's just that I love working in the darkroom, I love the workflow with film, chemistry etc., I love working under the enlarger, and these are skills I've worked hard on. I don't want to re-learn how to do it with software, and have no interest in that process. It wouldn't be enjoyable for me. I started photography in the darkroom, and I'll finish it there. If a time comes when I can't buy the materials anymore, I'll just allocate more time to my other hobbies.
    I don't think it's a question of enjoyment. I do enjoy shooting film and the tactile feel from my old cameras, the large viewfinders, but I don't miss using an enlarger and get a lot of satisfaction from drum scanning and large format digital printing. I enjoy working in Photoshop and if I could find a digital replacement for my Hasselblad I would be all over it. But at this point in time, digital capture still has a long way to go.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PKM-25 View Post
    I know three of those guys, they are being straight up in the video, no BS and I agree with what they are saying 100%. I don’t agree with the slam on the work, some of it is ok, a good bit of it is really nice, considerably better than a lot of the work I see on this site.

    I would think we all share the common desire for film to stick around, but the lack of logic here in regards to what I consider to be a nice narrative on current film users and what I still think is the best advertising….is baffling to me. Compared to living life in and around people like these guys who love life behind the lens, APUG is a very negative place in terms of moving film forward.

    For too many APUG members, it’s often the complaining seems to be the biggest past time on here. Since I have been a member, legions of people have complained that Kodak does not advertise. So here they do it in a *KILLER* way and people still slam on it….

    You seriously need to wake up, the video is awesome, truthful and to the point. This is narrative and advertising and that is *exactly* what Kodak needs to be doing right now and in the future.
    Whoa...

    we all have the right to our opinions and none of us, whatever those opinions may be, are required to respond a certain way to anyone's advertising, including that produced by film manufactures.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawn Dougherty View Post
    Whoa...

    we all have the right to our opinions and none of us, whatever those opinions may be, are required to respond a certain way to anyone's advertising, including that produced by film manufactures.
    It's not just advertising, it is heart-felt narrative, kind of like when someone passes your name onto someone with heart felt enthusiasm, it advertised you, but from a real place...

    And no, you don't *have* to respond in a certain way, but as a successful photographer who has gone nearly entirely back to film, I can say with certainty that it is often a net-negative result in terms of threads like these when it comes to commentary that newcomers to film would encounter here.

    I asked the woman I showed in this photo if she is a member of APUG. She responded that she is familiar with the site but finds it is tainted with far too many tech-battles and negative talk for her to spend much time dealing with.

    That's on you guys, so maybe stop crapping on your own party and perhaps more people will show up...
    Last edited by PKM-25; 01-29-2014 at 12:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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