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  1. #31
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Photographer Douglas Beasley posted today on Facebook, a beautiful portrait of an older man in a hat, and accompanied it with the text:

    "While traveling I often make portraits of people, but I think deeply how to do it in a respectful way. I believe it's always best to ask first. When you 'steal' photos by waiting until you think they are not watching sends a clear message to others about your intentions, integrity and ethics. What do you think?"

    I just read his post and thought it was perfect to add to this conversation. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but I really respect that a photographer thinks about making the portrait in a way that is respectful and empathetic, where they consider the person being photographed, and with a real sensitivity.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    John, isn't your last post almost contrary to what you said above.
    perhaps it is, but it is not showing these subjects as a freakshow
    the first one shows solitude and aloneness, the second one also.
    if the photographer threw money on the ground and had
    photographs of the passed out guy in a pile of money to me that
    would have crossed the line and been distasteful. one apug member posted
    a photo he took on his way to work of a homeless guy passed out in a pile of
    debris / trash &c with $$ thrown at him so it made it seem "ok"

    no it isn't art-porn, disrespectful, or distasteful, and there certainly is no need for model release forms.
    Last edited by jnanian; 02-25-2014 at 01:54 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    im empty, good luck

  3. #33
    irvd2x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NB23 View Post
    People walking in the distance, under a "foot center" sign.
    And in the center, a footless and blind homeless. Ignored by all but me.

    Ethics? Respect? What are you guys talking about?
    You noticed him with your camera,made a wonderful photograph,..but,as someone who lived out of my Jeep for awhile,I hope you at least noticed him with a sandwich or some offer for some level of assistance.

    I remember finding a five dollar bill and feeling a qave of relief.It meant I could buy an endless cup of coffee at Denny,which in turn gave me access to an outlet to charge my phone which in turn helped me do job searching,and more importantly,use my cellphone camera to photograph everyday.It kept me mentally stable just to do something productive.For me,photography,even as primitive as using an old 3mp little device,was that in composing the image..I was in the present.I wasnt struggling with my past, or despairing about an improbable future,but rather..as I looked through the viewfinder my mind is filled with the evidence that at least in THIS monent,and in THIS light, I can see something good,beautiful,and right.
    It is a redemptive process..all because that day,I had five bucks.

    Many homeless are mentally ill.I can tell you, if you are not beaten down before you became homeless..you will be.The energy to do each day what we all take for granted is enormous.

    So..take the photograph, then say a prayer, then offer something more if you can..even conversation.A persons biggest fight is for some sense of inner dignity..even if.on the outside it looks like that battle has been lost.

    Well,the subject hit close to home(no pun intended).But to add another..being homeless is no walk in the park..but sometimes..thats all it is.

    Here is an image or two from that time.


    Sent from my LG-P509 using Tapatalk 2
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails uploadfromtaptalk1393357502654.jpg   uploadfromtaptalk1393357613144.jpg   uploadfromtaptalk1393357675395.jpg  

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    My point is not that social change is a requirement for taking a photograph. Nor is obtaining written consent. The consent distinction I'm making is that the blind man or the unconscious man are incapable of registering the presence of the photographer and exercising consent by removing themselves from the field of view of the photographer or otherwise indicating they do not want to be photographed. When I was in France taking photos, if someone saw my camera and indicated they did not want to be photographed, I did not take their photo. I would not take the photo of someone obviously homeless because in addition to the absence of privacy the homeless person has as a precondition of their homelessness, they may well not be capable of articulating consent because of mental illness and are not aware of what is happening to them.
    most people on the street ( outside ) who are being photographed have no idea they are being photographed
    either by camera wielding photographers of the myriad of surveillance cameras perched on
    every telephone pole, ATM machine or building --- unconscious, blind, drunk on drugs just hanging out biding time.
    as i said previously NB's images are not distasteful, or disrespectful. the photographs aren't mocking these people
    just the opposite. there are plenty of photographs of people on the street ( and street photography ) that mock and plain nasty.
    these aren't evenclose.
    Last edited by jnanian; 02-25-2014 at 01:58 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    im empty, good luck

  5. #35
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    most people on the street ( outside ) who are being photographed have no idea they are being photographed
    either by camera wielding photographers of the myriad of surveillance cameras perched on
    every telephone pole, ATM machine or building --- unconscious, blind, drunk on drugs just hanging out biding time.
    That doesn't make it OK.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  6. #36
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irvd2x View Post
    I remember finding a five dollar bill...
    So good to have you, your images, and especially your point of view on this topic, here...

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    That doesn't make it OK.
    whats not OK? surveillance photographs,
    or no right to privacy, or photographingpeople
    without their consent, or street photography
    or photographing people living life on the edge?

    personally i dislike pet photography but as long as
    its not mocking, im ok with photographs of people on the edge.
    im empty, good luck

  8. #38
    cliveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    whats not OK? surveillance photographs,
    or no right to privacy, or photographingpeople
    without their consent, or street photography
    or photographing people living life on the edge?

    personally i dislike pet photography but as long as
    its not mocking, im ok with photographs of people on the edge.
    What's not OK is not treating people (who ever they are) with dignity or respect, as you mention in your original post.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  9. #39
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    ...
    as i said previously NB's images are not distasteful, or disrespectful. the photographs aren't mocking these people
    just the opposite. there are plenty of photographs of people on the street ( and street photography ) that mock and plain nasty.
    these aren't evenclose.
    I never said they were distasteful and disrespectful. But I do see them as taking advantage of the subjects because they DO dehumanize them in the sense that the people are reduced to symbols or even graphic forms. They have been essentialized into a dehumanized stand-in for homelessness and disability. That is both a strength and weakness of the medium - the ability to transform a subject from specific to generic, or rather to allow the subject to inhabit both specific and generic spaces simultaneously, because the subject is so uniquely detailed that you can't see them exclusively allegorically.

  10. #40
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    So good to have you, your images, and especially your point of view on this topic, here...

    Ken
    I will second that. Thank you for sharing with us your view and experience.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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