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Thread: Film is Racist

  1. #41
    ParkerSmithPhoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by analoguey View Post
    How do you meter for a mixed race portrait? Do you say, meter for the darker tones, then compensate during dev and printing? (or vice-versa?)
    If I was shooting film, I'd give a nice rich exposure and run it in Diafine. It's almost fool proof.
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  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    As far as I can tell, the evolution of Kodak film technology has always been toward more accurate colour. The fact that that may have improved reproduction of darker skin tones more obviously than lighter skin tones may actually be a coincidence.
    It would be consistent with striving for better handling of shadow detail, though. I notice that the complaints in the article didn't seem to be about hue so much as value: blown highlights, empty shadows, parts of the same face rendering brighter and other parts darker than expected. That seems like what you'd expect from struggling to get appropriate latitude down near the toe of the curve, and extending the toe would tend to improve it (also for the food photographers having problems with chocolate and the equine photographers having problems with black horses; by the way, if you want a real exposure challenge, try to get a good photograph of a black horse in full sun).

    When my dad was in the photo industry back in the 1970s, he reports that he saw research concluding that Kodak's colors looked more accurate to the average American eye, but Fuji's colors looked more accurate to the average Japanese eye. I don't know how solid that research was, but the hypothesis that even our perceptual definition of "accurate" is subject to cultural variation is interesting.

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  3. #43
    Jerevan's Avatar
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    Hogwash with some seriously bad photographs. I'm sorry, give us something better than this.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  4. #44
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    If a product were to be made regional (and some are), the major criterion involves curve shape (contrast) rather than color rendition for the most part.

    You see, generally in Europe the customer likes higher contrast. In Islamic countries women are not allowed to use cameras and so men are the primary photographers. Well, in some countries the only photographers. And men prefer contrasty pictures more than women. This argument also goes to the nature of the cameras being used. Richer countries use better cameras and thus need less correction for the lens flare from less expensive cameras.

    So, it comes down to contrast and that argument applies to consumer (high contrast) vs professional (low contrast). An earlier comment here mentioned how well Portra did with mixed skin colors. I would expect that. As I said earlier, this problem is a non problem that has been fixed ages ago and is routinely tested for. We took thousands of photos to learn how to do it, but it now works in practice quite well.

    PE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    If a product were to be made regional (and some are), the major criterion involves curve shape (contrast) rather than color rendition for the most part.

    You see, generally in Europe the customer likes higher contrast. In Islamic countries women are not allowed to use cameras and so men are the primary photographers. Well, in some countries the only photographers. And men prefer contrasty pictures more than women. This argument also goes to the nature of the cameras being used. Richer countries use better cameras and thus need less correction for the lens flare from less expensive cameras.

    So, it comes down to contrast and that argument applies to consumer (high contrast) vs professional (low contrast). An earlier comment here mentioned how well Portra did with mixed skin colors. I would expect that. As I said earlier, this problem is a non problem that has been fixed ages ago and is routinely tested for. We took thousands of photos to learn how to do it, but it now works in practice quite well.

    PE
    Women are not allowed to use cameras??? How wild is that? (don't answer that). Boy oh boy that's something else.
    When you think about making film, there's only 104 elements in the periodic table, and probably only about 1/4 of them can be mixed in such a way as to facilitate photography. So I think given those restrictions, film is pretty good stuff. This ain't heaven, but I'm sure the scientists got it a perfect as it can be. All in all I'm happy. Beats drawing on the cave walls with a soft rock and throwing spears for game.

  6. #46
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    In Islamic countries women are not allowed to use cameras and so men are the primary photographers.
    You should have reconsiderd this statement, were it not contradictory in itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    In Islamic countries women are not allowed to use cameras and so men are the primary photographers. Well, in some countries the only photographers.
    PE
    I guess you should tell this to Eman Muhammed from Gaza:
    http://www.emanmohammed.com/

    With comments like these it's easy to see why someone "might" think or find it easy to believe that Kodak had or has a racist foundation in creating their product.
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  8. #48
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    Well, in some Islamic countries women cannot drive cars or go out alone without a male relative as escort. This is not true of all countries. The result is male dominated photography.

    AgX, it is not self contradictory. It is recursive, that is, it refers to itself. I believe that is the correct term. It is meant to show that there are some women who do take pictures but not overtly.

    This information comes from several surveys of African and Asian countries including a lengthy tour of these areas by several EK professionals investigating just this sort of situation. One of the items uncovered included an influx of high end 35mm and MF cameras (used) into Africa to support a growing pro photo industry there.

    It also documented the huge use of ECN and ECP by Bollywood. This is now a major source of EK revenue and may be one reason that EK might have tailored some C41 films for use in India. IDK if this took place. It is speculation based on a previous post.

    PE

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    PE,

    As you know, I'm from Japan. In the mid 70s to 80s, I was into photography using mostly simple cameras. I recall using Sakura, Fuji, and Kodak film. I also recall, Sakura films always had enhanced red tendency (look pinkish), Fuji had green tendency (look greenish), and Kodak, yellow (yeah, yellow). Exactly color of box they came in. Now, this wasn't a scientific test. They were all taken in different environment at different time. Yet, those tendencies were pretty consistent.

    Can you comment on this? Did Kodak favor color yellow for some particular reason? Was this a regional thing?? I remember liking Kodak because of it. To me, it looked more natural.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, in some Islamic countries women cannot drive cars or go out alone without a male relative as escort. This is not true of all countries. The result is male dominated photography.

    PE
    Without the driving part, if APUG and LFPF (and DPreview and the such) are any insight, that statement is true almost everywhere.
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