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Thread: Film is Racist

  1. #81
    Doc W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    And, BTW, the system was designed to capture the lightest and darkest skin tones in one exposure with common lighting. This is contrary to what some have claimed. It is (was) made possible by the long latitude of C41 films.

    I have one example here, but I don't have the rights to the image and so it would have to be severely edited for presentation and would cut out facial features. It is a set of 3 of the "Kodak gals" which never went public.

    PE
    PE, do you think you could get me a date with one of the Kodak gals?

  2. #82
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Probably Doc. However, ya gotta remember that the ones I know are my age!

  3. #83
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    The author Michael Crichton used to talk about a phenomena call "Gell-Mann Amnesia", named for the physicist Murray Gell-Mann.

    Crichton put it this way:
    Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray's case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the "wet streets cause rain" stories. Paper's full of them.In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.
    Reading the articles on racism in film, and particularly reading some of the comments on those web pages, and then comparing that to PE's comments here brings Crichton to mind. It seems that something of a variation on Gell-Mann Amnesia is at play, in that some advocates are so thoroughly invested in their conclusions that nothing could possibly dissuade them...not even the input from someone like PE who was there and knows what really happened and knows the truth from the inside.

    I work in graphic arts, and deal with color management issues every day. Its never easy, given that you rarely know what exactly your customer is expecting to see. Even in our brave new world of fully digital workflows and pre-defined color spaces and carefully calibrated equipment and standardized color pallets, we still routinely run into issues. When I think about the tools that I have available to me (our RIP makes it trivially easy to go in and precision-calibrate a CMYK profile on a job-by-job basis), and compare that to what Kodak had to work with (for example) in the 1980's, I am amazed that they got it right at all.
    I shoot digital when I have to (most of those shots end up here) and film (occasionally one of those shots ends up here) when I want to.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    ...and compare that to what Kodak had to work with (for example) in the 1980's, I am amazed that they got it right at all.
    Coincidentally, I've heard almost the exact same thing from a guy chimping on his dslr, when I was using my handheld meter.
    An awful lot of electrons were terribly inconvenienced in the making of this post.

    f/64 and be there.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I have one example here, but I don't have the rights to the image and so it would have to be severely edited for presentation and would cut out facial features. It is a set of 3 of the "Kodak gals" which never went public.

    PE
    Just do it, man! It's all in the interest of science and enlightenment, of course.

    But, seriously, I was already in awe of what the photographic engineers could do with chemistry to capture light, colour and texture. After reading your posts my awe is even bigger.

    This is part of the reason that I still use film, although it's expensive and time-consuming. Film is truly a feat of human invention that needs to be preserved, celebrated and above all used!

  6. #86
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaf-Photo View Post
    I was already in awe of what the photographic engineers could do with chemistry to capture light, colour and texture. After reading [PE's] posts my awe is even bigger.

    This is part of the reason that I still use film, although it's expensive and time-consuming. Film is truly a feat of human invention that needs to be preserved, celebrated and above all used!
    But your curiosity is rarely shared.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    But your curiosity is rarely shared.
    Yes and no.

    Other people often appreciate my film photos. They usually comment on the natural colours and sense of depth (a result of the grain).

    But it's hard to persuade them to actually use film themselves.

  8. #88
    AgX
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    Well, I did not mean the photography but the technology behind it which you hinted at too.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgX View Post
    Well, I did not mean the photography but the technology behind it which you hinted at too.
    Agreed, but Not everyone is a philosopher/nerd like me

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by omaha View Post
    The author Michael Crichton used to talk about a phenomena call "Gell-Mann Amnesia", named for the physicist Murray Gell-Mann.
    Thank you for this. Very educational.

    About 25 years ago I was so disgusted by the local news's handling of a story with which I was familiar, that I completely quit watching all TV news.
    “You seek escape from pain. We seek the achievement of happiness. You exist for the sake of avoiding punishment. We exist for the sake of earning rewards. Threats will not make us function; fear is not our incentive. It is not death that we wish to avoid, but life that we wish to live.” - John Galt

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