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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post

    I don't think either is wrong in their approach. Each has a system that works for them.

    Personally when I shoot more, I start seeing more. Another advantage I find in shooting more is acclimatizing my subjects to what I'm doing and the inevitability of me getting their photo, this is truly helpful when shooting events for both candids and formal shots. The extra shots also help me "learn my subject better".
    the last sentence says it for me mark
    the more you shoot something, the more you understand it
    whether it is the equipment, lighting, film, developer or subject.
    i have a thing for shooting underpasses as i go under them. different times of day
    piers, plank buttresses, drainage infrastructure, blinding light no light slow fast shutter flash
    through windows out sunroof or windows different formats lenses, seasons traffic &c and the more i expose the different things
    i realize or see or understand. so while i may have exposed 300+ views and not gotten the one i want,
    i might not know what i want until i can't shoot that subject or that bridge or that light or ? anymore
    and i will be forced to look at all the frames and pick out the one that i think IS the bridge.
    if my background was an engineer or construction or inspector i would look for 1 thing (maybe)
    but as a bystander i look for something else .. and luckily i havent found it yet so every time i photograph it it
    is almost a new experience.
    as someone with a camera i learn by seeing sometimes,
    and as a historian i learn by asking questions
    and i find nothing wrong with questioning and seeing at the same time ( if that makes sense )
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  2. #12
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    I thing digital shooters have more out takes because they're not limited to 36 exposures before reloading AND shooting more doesn't increase the cost of the assignment. Am I wrong? There's more time for the photo editor sifting for the Heros.
    "Photography, like surfing, is an infinite process, a constantly evolving exploration of life."
    Aaron Chang

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    I thing digital shooters have more out takes because they're not limited to 36 exposures before reloading AND shooting more doesn't increase the cost of the assignment. Am I wrong? There's more time for the photo editor sifting for the Heros.
    volume shooting has been part of the NG ethos before digital was invented ..

    when i was in college my roomate's friend from home was a well known NG photographer
    i can't remember the name, and even if you say " its so-and-so" i wouldn't have had a clue who it was
    so i would just say " okay" ... anyways this was in about 1986? or so and i was told by the daughter
    that for every 1 keeper her dad shoots about 10,000 exposures ...
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  4. #14
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    I think the machine gun technique has nothing to do with good photography, or capturing a good shot.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  5. #15
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    I thing digital shooters have more out takes because they're not limited to 36 exposures before reloading AND shooting more doesn't increase the cost of the assignment. Am I wrong? There's more time for the photo editor sifting for the Heros.
    A local photographer did a wedding for a friend of mine, had three people shooting and the shot count for the day was 5,000ish as I remember. After the wedding the photographer gave my friend a disc with all 5,000 sized small, similar in size to what the gallery uploads here are and said "Call me when you have your faves picked out". Last I heard that was as far as it ever went. No album no prints.

    It was a true dis-service to dump 5000 shots onto the client, this is especially true given that the norm for total shots used for a given wedding was about 40-60 shots when I was trying to make a living at it (6-8 years ago). Even today it is my understanding that a truly huge wedding album will only have 100 shots in it.

    I do understand why that photographer dumped that work onto the client though editing 5000 shots is an overwhelming and daunting task. I had one wedding hit 2000 and the editing time killed the next week.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #16
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I think the machine gun technique has nothing to do with good photography, or capturing a good shot.
    And I agree. I do though see the value in say burning through a whole roll (or 4 sheets) for each subject/setting/situation/sitter. Even if we know darn well we can get what we want with a single shot, IMO forcing ourselves to experiment a bit has real value even if it doesn't turn out every time.

    There have been far too many times in my life where I decided to save a couple sheets/frames and later looked back and said, should'a burned more film or should'a tried xyz.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    And I agree. I do though see the value in say burning through a whole roll (or 4 sheets) for each subject/setting/situation/sitter. Even if we know darn well we can get what we want with a single shot, IMO forcing ourselves to experiment a bit has real value even if it doesn't turn out every time.

    There have been far too many times in my life where I decided to save a couple sheets/frames and later looked back and said, should'a burned more film or should'a tried xyz.
    i used to bring 1 roll of 24exp tmy with me to every newspaper assignment to take a portrait.
    i would use the whole roll easily trying to get what i needed. at first i thought, this is insane 24 exposures for 1 view
    but then it was go-time and i had to deal with cranky people bad expressions trying to coax something nice
    different poses, different scenarios and i sometimes went into a 2nd roll. when i worked for the portrait photographer i allude to
    she would give me 3 full holders of split 5x7 film ... 12 exposures / client/sitter.
    it isn't machine gunning by any means but it certainly isn't 10thousand exposures ...
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  8. #18
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    I've known various portrait photographers that use a six-shot set or something very similar like a roll of 120 in an RB. Each shot having a different pose or adjustment to the lighting, wasn't a bunch of repeats.

    I don't think machine gunning is what Abell/NG necessarily did though. My impression from the video and from other places where I've read Abell"s suggestions is more about planning, experimentation, and refinement.

    Machine gunning, IMO, is when somebody doing a group photo just holds the button down for 5 seconds on fast auto-advance just to make sure they get a usable one of the group saying cheese. One shot of "say cheese faces" is bad enough, doesn't improve no matter how many shots you take.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  9. #19
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    110+ years ago, Clarence H White was shooting as much as he could afford; one plate a week, and the results took him far. He was a named member of the photo secession and taught a who's who of modern photography.

    No we don't experiment enough. We should experiment as much as we can afford. Money and darkroom time is the constraint with film, computer time and storage is the constraint with digital.

    Sometimes I go shoot a roll of 120 and have 6 photos I'm really pleased with. Other times, I go shoot a couple rolls or a half dozen 4x5's and not be pleased. Light, inspiration, and skill all have to collide at once.

  10. #20
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    That's a great example jp498. As I remember Weston worked similarly, even eating some of his most famous props.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

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