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  1. #11
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    I thing digital shooters have more out takes because they're not limited to 36 exposures before reloading AND shooting more doesn't increase the cost of the assignment. Am I wrong? There's more time for the photo editor sifting for the Heros.
    “We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness.
    We are monkeys with money and guns.”

    ― Tom Waits

  2. #12
    jnanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    I thing digital shooters have more out takes because they're not limited to 36 exposures before reloading AND shooting more doesn't increase the cost of the assignment. Am I wrong? There's more time for the photo editor sifting for the Heros.
    volume shooting has been part of the NG ethos before digital was invented ..

    when i was in college my roomate's friend from home was a well known NG photographer
    i can't remember the name, and even if you say " its so-and-so" i wouldn't have had a clue who it was
    so i would just say " okay" ... anyways this was in about 1986? or so and i was told by the daughter
    that for every 1 keeper her dad shoots about 10,000 exposures ...

  3. #13
    cliveh's Avatar
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    I think the machine gun technique has nothing to do with good photography, or capturing a good shot.

    “The contemplation of things as they are, without error or confusion, without substitution or imposture, is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention”

    Francis Bacon

  4. #14
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    I thing digital shooters have more out takes because they're not limited to 36 exposures before reloading AND shooting more doesn't increase the cost of the assignment. Am I wrong? There's more time for the photo editor sifting for the Heros.
    A local photographer did a wedding for a friend of mine, had three people shooting and the shot count for the day was 5,000ish as I remember. After the wedding the photographer gave my friend a disc with all 5,000 sized small, similar in size to what the gallery uploads here are and said "Call me when you have your faves picked out". Last I heard that was as far as it ever went. No album no prints.

    It was a true dis-service to dump 5000 shots onto the client, this is especially true given that the norm for total shots used for a given wedding was about 40-60 shots when I was trying to make a living at it (6-8 years ago). Even today it is my understanding that a truly huge wedding album will only have 100 shots in it.

    I do understand why that photographer dumped that work onto the client though editing 5000 shots is an overwhelming and daunting task. I had one wedding hit 2000 and the editing time killed the next week.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  5. #15
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliveh View Post
    I think the machine gun technique has nothing to do with good photography, or capturing a good shot.
    And I agree. I do though see the value in say burning through a whole roll (or 4 sheets) for each subject/setting/situation/sitter. Even if we know darn well we can get what we want with a single shot, IMO forcing ourselves to experiment a bit has real value even if it doesn't turn out every time.

    There have been far too many times in my life where I decided to save a couple sheets/frames and later looked back and said, should'a burned more film or should'a tried xyz.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  6. #16
    jnanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    And I agree. I do though see the value in say burning through a whole roll (or 4 sheets) for each subject/setting/situation/sitter. Even if we know darn well we can get what we want with a single shot, IMO forcing ourselves to experiment a bit has real value even if it doesn't turn out every time.

    There have been far too many times in my life where I decided to save a couple sheets/frames and later looked back and said, should'a burned more film or should'a tried xyz.
    i used to bring 1 roll of 24exp tmy with me to every newspaper assignment to take a portrait.
    i would use the whole roll easily trying to get what i needed. at first i thought, this is insane 24 exposures for 1 view
    but then it was go-time and i had to deal with cranky people bad expressions trying to coax something nice
    different poses, different scenarios and i sometimes went into a 2nd roll. when i worked for the portrait photographer i allude to
    she would give me 3 full holders of split 5x7 film ... 12 exposures / client/sitter.
    it isn't machine gunning by any means but it certainly isn't 10thousand exposures ...

  7. #17
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    I've known various portrait photographers that use a six-shot set or something very similar like a roll of 120 in an RB. Each shot having a different pose or adjustment to the lighting, wasn't a bunch of repeats.

    I don't think machine gunning is what Abell/NG necessarily did though. My impression from the video and from other places where I've read Abell"s suggestions is more about planning, experimentation, and refinement.

    Machine gunning, IMO, is when somebody doing a group photo just holds the button down for 5 seconds on fast auto-advance just to make sure they get a usable one of the group saying cheese. One shot of "say cheese faces" is bad enough, doesn't improve no matter how many shots you take.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  8. #18
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    110+ years ago, Clarence H White was shooting as much as he could afford; one plate a week, and the results took him far. He was a named member of the photo secession and taught a who's who of modern photography.

    No we don't experiment enough. We should experiment as much as we can afford. Money and darkroom time is the constraint with film, computer time and storage is the constraint with digital.

    Sometimes I go shoot a roll of 120 and have 6 photos I'm really pleased with. Other times, I go shoot a couple rolls or a half dozen 4x5's and not be pleased. Light, inspiration, and skill all have to collide at once.

  9. #19
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    That's a great example jp498. As I remember Weston worked similarly, even eating some of his most famous props.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  10. #20

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    It's all in one's approach, and that differs for each person. I expect more "keepers" when I'm shooting medium format, but I experimented more with 35mm. I almost gave 35mm up about a year ago, but I took a camera on two recent trips (with no expectations) and I may have to rethink that decision. I found on this last trip that there is a certain liberation (for me) with 35mm.

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